Set of J on a 4 flush board

aK13 · #1 03-29-2005, 04:14 PM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
6 folds, Button calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Should I be worried about villain having a flush draw on the flop, and completing it on the turn?

_bustedflush_ · #2 03-29-2005, 04:18 PM

HU + OOP + 4 flush on board = bet the river (depending on read & pot size, fold to a raise)

ayecappy · #3 03-29-2005, 04:40 PM

<blockquote>Svar till:<hr />
Should I be worried about villain having a flush draw on the flop, and completing it on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, you have ten outs to beat a flush and the pot is 6.5big bets, if he fills his flush and you fill your full house you will make lots of money.

KaiShin · #4 03-29-2005, 04:56 PM

I think I would lead this turn. If raised you can call and reevaluate on the river. If you don't fill up, then the check/fold can come into consideration. If you do, you can lead again and hopefully pull a 3-bet out of the river.

wyoak · #5 03-29-2005, 04:58 PM

seems good up until the river. bet out, fold to a raise unless villian seems really donkish.

@bsolute_luck · #6 03-29-2005, 05:04 PM

you lose to an unlikely QT straight too. i don't see anything wrong with how you played it.

you earned the maximum if you win, lose the mimimum if you lose.

i don't understand the river bet suggestion. if you're gonna bet out, wouldn't you do it on the turn? bet out and fold a raise then if you're going to fold?

elbuddha · #7 03-29-2005, 05:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
HU + OOP + 4 flush on board = bet the river (depending on read & pot size, fold to a raise)

[/ QUOTE ]

Call a raise.

tiltaholic · #8 03-29-2005, 05:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would lead this turn. If raised you can call and reevaluate on the river. If you don't fill up, then the check/fold can come into consideration. If you do, you can lead again and hopefully pull a 3-bet out of the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

detruncate · #9 03-29-2005, 05:18 PM

Who are you up against? We need reads.

To start with, he open-limped OTB. Most aggressive players won't do so unless they're trying to be "deceptive". Even fairly passive players will raise more often than usual. It's only the very passive pf players that will routinely limp, and tight vs loose is important. A loose/passive player could have pretty much anything. A tight/passive will be on a very narrow range of hands.

If you're up against a passive post-flop player, he's unlikely to be jamming a draw -- this is important when it comes time to decide what to do on the turn. An aggressive player might do so, but you should also be thinking big made hands that were limped pf to try to get more action out of you if he's shown a tendency to be tricky, or an attempt to play back at you with a bluff/semi-bluff. A decent TAG almost certainly raises anything he plays -- HEPFAP talks about open-limp OTB hands, but anything other than a raise should be sending up red flags if he's a known TAG.

Being able to (more or less) discount the turn flush based on a read does less for you in this case (since there is a potential straight on baord), but it's still an important thing to keep in mind in these situations.

Given everything, the turn call is probably better than a raise, but a turn lead/call would probably be best. A fold would suck.

You should bet the river. Call a raise against an aggressive/tricky player (depending on the turn action -- be more inclined to fold if he raised the turn), and fold to it against a passive/fairly predicatable player.

*Edit: clarification.

UncleSalty · #10 03-29-2005, 05:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you lose to an unlikely QT straight too. i don't see anything wrong with how you played it.

you earned the maximum if you win, lose the mimimum if you lose.

i don't understand the river bet suggestion. if you're gonna bet out, wouldn't you do it on the turn? bet out and fold a raise then if you're going to fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

The river bet suggestion is known as "Clarkmeisters Theorum":

[ QUOTE ]
HU + OOP + 4 flush on board = bet the river (depending on read & pot size, fold to a raise)

[/ QUOTE ]

Clarkmeister says that when the 4th flush card hits the river, you are always better off betting out and folding to a raise than you would be if you check and call a bet. Do you see why?

If you check, your opponent's bet could mean either he has the flush, or he's bluffing against your show of weakness. You get no definite information, but the pot size will generally require that you call the bet. So, check/call costs you one bet and you are at an informational disadvantage.

Betting out, on the other hand, puts your opponent at the informational disadvantage. You can now win this hand two ways: He either folds, or he calls without the flush trying to catch your bluff. If he raises, you can be certain he has the flush and safely fold. (Still only costing one bet.)