Evaluating outs at a passive Table

atnels · #1 03-29-2005, 12:21 AM

Table is overall pretty passive. MP2 is decently aggressive in appropriate spots but tends to see a lot of flops.

Absolute Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

I figured this was a marginal call, but given I was closing the action I thought I could peel one. Anyone fold... or lead out?

Turn: (5.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls, Hero...?

So here I am again, closing the action and can call getting 9.5:1. If I were to consider the 2 sixes and 3 Aces as clean outs, I could easily call. But, I'm not too sure how clean any of them are.

The main problem at this table is that UTG and CO are both almost too passive - I have seen both of them limp w/ AKs and just check/call with TPTK. CO even called down with a set on a painted board. Any thoughts on dealing with uber-passive players when you're never sure if they're just calling because the toaster told them to, or they have top set?

Kuanti · #2 03-29-2005, 01:02 AM

I would check-fold the flop, and fold the turn unimproved if you make it that far. The pot is not enormous and you don't have that many outs. That's just me though.

ArturiusX · #3 03-29-2005, 01:31 AM

He's getting 10:1 to close the action on the flop, a fold would be a mistake.

I'd fold the turn UI.

jaxUp · #4 03-29-2005, 01:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
He's getting 10:1 to close the action on the flop, a fold would be a mistake.

I'd fold the turn UI.

[/ QUOTE ]

bottomset · #5 03-29-2005, 02:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would check-fold the flop, and fold the turn unimproved if you make it that far. The pot is not enormous and you don't have that many outs. That's just me though.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats pretty ehh, both the flop and turn calls here are automatic closing the action, easy easy calls

why would any of the 5outs be discounted? and for it to not be a call you would need them to be discounted to about 3outs, as you should call here with 4outs closing the action

wax311 · #6 03-29-2005, 01:43 AM

I evaluate outs pretty simply - instead of having your two 6s and three As as 5 clean outs, I'd bump it down to 4. Someone (UTG most likely) could have two pair with one of your 6s, someone could have AT, or someone could have made a straight or be drawing to a straight or flush as of the turn. Generally in a ragged board like this, I don't bump down my outs too much. That said, I'd say it's worth the 9.5:1 pot odds i'd say it's a borderline call with implied odds.

TripleH68 · #7 03-29-2005, 01:46 AM

Hero calls closing the action on this turn getting 9.5 to 1.

Your outs should all be good, though you are drawing dead to a set or straight made on the turn...and need a mini-discount for runner-runner flush.