Trying to apply SSH concepts at Party 1/2. AJo in middle position.

morberg · #1 03-28-2005, 08:26 AM

I just finished reading SSH and I'm struggling to adapt my play to become more aggressive and push when the pot is large. Sometimes I think I overdo it, though... I haven't settled in at 1/2 yet, I'm coming from 0.5/1 where I'm more comfortable.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, CO (poster) calls, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG folds, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, CO folds, SB calls.

Nice big pot. Pre-flop 3-better bets the flop which is to be expected. I raise to wrestle the tight CO out of the pot. I have no good read on SB, so it's hard to say if I'm ahead or not. When he just calls I figure I might have a shot. Was the raise over the top?

Turn: (7.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Hm. SB does not want to slow down. I have picked up a gutshot to the nuts which I estimate is worth a call. The pot is laying 8.5 to 1, but I expect another bet from SB on the river which I can raise if I hit my straight making it 10.5 to 1 (or does it?). Should I count any outs with my overcard? Weak call?

River: (9.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.

This might be the big mistake in the pot. Folding for just one bet on the river. Against a pre-flop 3-better I figure he has a high PP or AK-AT, where I tie with AJ and loose to the rest. I fold. With an A on the river I would have called, but not with a J. Mistake?

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

xenthebrain · #2 03-28-2005, 08:36 AM

Fold the flop. Maybe it's weak, but you are almost certain behind.
If he is very LAG it might be different, but you haven't posted any reads on him.

Almost all the hands he would raise with pf have you beaten. AK, AQ, any pp, KQs (LL reraise with KQs sometimes)...

You have no real draws, the Ace is not clean, there is an overcards to your jack on the board, you might be drawing very slim (backdoor straight draw, running jacks)

There is no need to protect your hand here, cause you don't really have much of a hand.

It's not easy sometimes to give someone a pot just because of his agression, but you missed, so don't waste anymore money

ArturiusX · #3 03-28-2005, 08:40 AM

AJ almost never wins unimproved.

You have 4 outs. You are getting 12:1 on your call. You are drawing dead vs pocket queen, dominated by AA, AK, and AQ.

This is a very very standard and easy muck, why did you push this hand so hard?

einbert · #4 03-28-2005, 08:52 AM

Yeah you should have folded the flop.

A) You don't have two overcards, just one

B) YOu have no backdoor draws except for a ratty gapped BDSD which will only give you a gutshot if anything

C) Even if an A or J hits, if it's a club you could be drawing completely dead. And a J might only give you a redraw against the queen.

Just let it go and wait for another hand.

LuckyStrike · #5 03-28-2005, 09:36 AM

Looks like you're spewing to me. AJ on a Q high flop is a very marginal hand, especially against a PF 3-better. If he has AQ you're drawing almost dead and drawing to 3 outs against AK, and the same with KK. If he has aces then you're in really sorry shape.

When the SB leads the turn, he's almost definitely got the goods. I take this line sometimes with a good hand and hope I can get a 3-bet in.

btspider · #6 03-28-2005, 12:22 PM

fold flop.

KaiShin · #7 03-28-2005, 12:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (11 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, CO folds, SB calls.

Nice big pot. Pre-flop 3-better bets the flop which is to be expected. I raise to wrestle the tight CO out of the pot. I have no good read on SB, so it's hard to say if I'm ahead or not. When he just calls I figure I might have a shot. Was the raise over the top?

[/ QUOTE ]
Why did you expect SB to bet the flop? Try and put him on some hands that he would 3-bet from that position, and make sure you remember that he's in the SB.

Now think about your hand relative to those hands SB might have, and decide whether you think you are ahead or not.

J.DP · #8 03-28-2005, 12:55 PM

Knocking out CO on the flop will probably not improve your winning chances very much since SB likely has you crushed. You have very few outs on this flop since SB 3 bet preflop, everything is tainted.

This is definately not the time to clear up outs.

Turn call is fine, 4 outs for the gushot and maybe 1 out for the Ace.

[ QUOTE ]
This might be the big mistake in the pot. Folding for just one bet on the river. Against a pre-flop 3-better I figure he has a high PP or AK-AT, where I tie with AJ and loose to the rest. I fold. With an A on the river I would have called, but not with a J. Mistake?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is bad. You have nothing, your chances of taking this pot down with a call are slim to none

Small Stakes Hold'em says:
[ QUOTE ]
Even if you are almost sure that you are beaten, when the pot is large on the river, do not fold decent hands for one bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think your hand is decent given SB previous actions then you may need to work on your hand reading skills.

davelin · #9 03-28-2005, 12:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
River: (9.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.

This might be the big mistake in the pot. Folding for just one bet on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think this was your biggest mistake, you need some adjustments in your thinking.

GivenToFly · #10 03-28-2005, 12:59 PM

preflop is good.. although the 3-bet, especially coming from sb, is a sign of a great hand.. (a read helps).. lets assume his range of hands might be 77-AA, AK, AQ, KQ... (a large range).. your behind almost all of these preflop..

flop.. sb bets out at you.. this probably eliminates QQ.. but who cares you have nothing.. I'm not sure what a raise does for you here since you are probably way behind with against a pair or dominated.. therefore I would fold this..

fold the turn too.. your not getting the odds to draw to your gutshot.. and its likely a st8 .. is all your winning with .. imo.. although i think he flop is a bigger mistake than the turn

again, I wouldn't make a flop play like this unless I had a read