First shot at 5/10 -- help, I'm spewing chips

SkittleBrau · #1 03-27-2005, 01:54 PM

I decided to take my first shot at 5/10 on Party last night. I have been playing 2/4, mostly on Stars, and have averaged about 2bb/100 over 50k hands. Admittedly not exactly crushing the game or a big sample size, but people here seem to say the 5/10 on Party is similar to the 2/4 on Stars, so I decided to set aside 100BB to take a crack at it and see how it felt.

First of all, it was way, way more aggressive than Stars 2/4. Every table seemed to feature a bunch of LAGs and maybe one decent (TAG) player, maybe a loose-passive or two. Stars 2/4 has mostly loose-passive, some tight-passive, and the occassional maniac or decent player. In any case, all the aggression and mostly heads-up pots got me a bit flustered, so I tightened up slightly and tried to stay aggressive. I guess one thing I struggle with is knowing when to lay down marginal hands heads-up against a LAG. Also, I had a harder time getting read on people since many were pretty much raising with any two cards (82s UTG??) and I probably felt too strongly I had to showdown marginal stuff against these type of players. Also, when they didn't hit they would often chase to the river with as little as an overcard, so I really wanted to bet my marginal hands for value but all that betting on my part opened me up for them to make tricky raises.

Net result was down 70BB in about 500 hands, so I was pretty frustrated. Obviously not an unheard-of downturn, but given my newness to this game, I attribute as much of it to my play as to some of extraordinary runner-runner type beats I took (I will spare you those).

Anyway, here are a few hands for some input. Comments on all streets appreciated -- I feel like I lost my footing a bit. Some specific questions as well.

Hand 1 -- SB is loose-aggressive. Can I fold to the turn 3-bet?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB folds, MP folds.

Turn: (5 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (11 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Hand 2 - Cutoff (MP) is somewhat loose and pretty aggressive. UTG is a bit loose, relatively passive. Just call the initial turn raise and show-down? I can't fold to the turn raise, can I?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, MP folds.

Turn: (6 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls.

River: (14 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB

Hand 3 -- SB here is tight and quite aggressive, quite capable of folding after the flop as well. Check the turn?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Hand 4 - SB is slightly loose, quite aggro in steal situations so he could have a pretty wide range of holdings, even from the SB here. Fold to the turn checkraise?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (4 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

Hand 5 - BB seems to fold too much to steals, so I took a crack at it with this lousy hand. Too marginal since I'm going to be out of position, even if he folds too much? Obviously from the flop on I'm chasing the flush, but on the river I caught my queen. River call dumb anyway?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (6 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

Hand 6 - Button is quite loose and pretty aggressive. Could I have handled the river differently?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB calls.

River: (7.70 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.70 BB

brettbrettr · #2 03-27-2005, 02:09 PM

I'm new too, so take this FWIW:

Hand 1: Given your read, seems fine.
Hand 2: I call down the turn raise.
Hand 3: I'm not sure I raise the flop, definitely don't raise the turn. I'd prob call the flop and fold the turn u/i.
Hand 4: That river card really sucks, but I prob play it the same.
Hand 5: Ugh, I prob play it the same but that'sw prob not good at all.
Hand 6: Looks fine.

(I'm hoping I'm wrong on all of these and we can both plug some leaks right quick!)

Scotch78 · #3 03-27-2005, 04:11 PM

Hand 1:

I'm not sure why you raised the turn. The small blind isn't representing a two, so he's most likely bluffing or slowplaying.

Hand 2:

Turn 3-bet is a no-no, and I probably fold. With that board and a passive player coming alive, you're drawing very thin.

Hand 3:

I might take the free card, but it looks okay.

Hand 4:

This hand is just icky. Do you have any read on him heads-up? Will he call the flop with A-high or worse?

Hand 5:

This is a good board to try re-stealing. If I don't check-raise the flop it's because I'm waiting for a safe turn. Were you thinking the same or just check-calling all the way?

Hand 6:

Is he aggressive enough to raise with an ace on the flop or turn? If so, I check behind.

Scott

fyodor · #4 03-27-2005, 04:36 PM

Hand 1 I see no point in raising the turn. He won't be folding a better hand but will fold a bluff. Just call him down.

Hand 2 I wouldn't raise preflop given this situation (limper and raiser) Turn raises at 5/10, especially from passive players, are normally some kind of hand. It might just be JT or QJ but when the passive caps you can be pretty certain it is more than that.

Hand 3 is a situation where I am happy to take the free card on the turn. His checkraise is the reason why.

Hand 4 Turn checkraises at 5/10 are rarely bluffs. They do happen so you can't go mucking everything but you just get to know who at a table you should call and who you shouldn't. There are idiots who will checkraise the flush draw they just picked up.

Hand 5 is ok

Hand 6 is ok

SkittleBrau · #5 03-28-2005, 12:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 1 I see no point in raising the turn. He won't be folding a better hand but will fold a bluff. Just call him down.

[/ QUOTE ]
In 2/4 I see people play weak aces the same way in spots like this (especially if I've been aggressive on the flop recently), so I was raising for value in my mind.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 4 Turn checkraises at 5/10 are rarely bluffs. They do happen so you can't go mucking everything but you just get to know who at a table you should call and who you shouldn't. There are idiots who will checkraise the flush draw they just picked up.

[/ QUOTE ]
I saw some flops capped w/ weak draws (like gutshots), but obviously you are right... I was just having a hard time picking my spots.

SkittleBrau · #6 03-28-2005, 12:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 4:

This hand is just icky. Do you have any read on him heads-up? Will he call the flop with A-high or worse?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, he would probably call w/ A high.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 5:

This is a good board to try re-stealing. If I don't check-raise the flop it's because I'm waiting for a safe turn. Were you thinking the same or just check-calling all the way?

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought I was behind but was getting odds to catch up with a flush. I planned to check-call, and then fold the river if I didn't improve to a flush (or as it turned out, perhaps foolishly, with my queen)

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 6:

Is he aggressive enough to raise with an ace on the flop or turn? If so, I check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I guess there is a reasonable chance he'd raise with an A, but he also might call down with something like bottom pair.

danng721 · #7 03-28-2005, 01:39 AM

Hand 1: Call instead of raise the turn and call down. You got sucked out by a 3 or a 45. Can't do anything about it.

Hand 2: If MP is somewhat loose instead of being a total maniac, don't 3-bet. Especially since you're new to 5/10. With your read on UTG, I call down the turn raise and river. You probably lost to a set or some dorky suited connector.

Hand 3: Flop raise was good, you either raise or fold there. Turn bet was a huge mistake though. If a TAG 3-bets you from the SB, I think you're way behind preflop.

Hand 4: With your read, it's OK. You got cold decked.

Hand 5: BB probably has a huge hand. Your play was OK, though. Nothing you can do.

Hand 6: Played fine. Bad beat.

SkittleBrau · #8 03-30-2005, 12:23 AM

Results for the curious:

Hand 1: Villian has 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hand 2: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hand 4: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hand 5: 10[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 10[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hand 6: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]