Faking the call... shooting an angle?

[otnemem]

I need some opinons here - if your opponent makes a big raise on the river, and you grab your chips as you contemplate the call... then motion as if you're throwing in the call, but you keep the chips in your hand - is this an angle? Say you do this and your opponent says something like, "You got me," before he flips his hand? Is this an immoral play?

[Voltron87]

That is an angleshot, if I understand it correctly.

[PokerSlut]

I see players doing things like this literally every time I play in the casino, which you can take to mean every day. A much more common ploy (i.e. one that I will see several times per session) that I see in my regular NL game is for someone to announce their hand before flipping their cards, but announce a hand that they do not actually have.

It is part of the game, and it would behoove anyone who plays live cash games to desensitize themselves to any kinds of motions or conversation from their opponents while in a hand.

[AngusThermopyle]

[ QUOTE ]
if your opponent makes a big raise on the river, and you grab your chips as you contemplate the call... then motion as if you're throwing in the call, but you keep the chips in your hand - is this an angle? Say you do this and your opponent says something like, "You got me," before he flips his hand?

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And so you call and he shows you the nuts. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Angles have a bad way of coming back to bite you if you do it against someone who is alert.

[belloc]

Caro's Book of Tells is rife with examples of this sort of of thing (chip reaches, fakeout folds, premature showdowns, etc). He treats them as tells and not angles. Caro's approach is that when someone does this to you, he's giving you information, you just need to decide what it means, and how to use it.

[fearme]

i saw gus hansen do this against negreanu on the wpt, then he folded

[Swampy]

It's no more of an angle than sitting there "thinking" for five minutes about a hand you know you're going to fold.

[iluzion]

i dont have the book but am curious, what would this tell mean?

[OrangeCat]

Maybe not and angle shot. Lots of people make unintentional motions with their hands. More often than not, it is misinterpreted as a check.

Don't get yourself into the situation. Always wait until the player before you has made their action clear. If you are not sure ask the dealer if they checked. You can do that.

[belloc]

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i dont have the book but am curious, what would this tell mean?

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Well, there are tons these kinds of things, but a typical example is this:

While you're contemplating a bet, a player behind you grabs enough chips for a raise. Either he's acting (aware that you're aware of him), or he isn't. If you can determine that he's acting, this is a "strong means weak" sort of tell. He's trying to induce a check so he can check behind you with his weak hand.

The contrary example is this: the player behind you picks up his cards as if he's ready to muck them. If he's acting (aware that you're aware), it's a "weak means strong" sort of tell. He's trying to induce a bet from you so he can raise behind with his big hand.

These are just examples, not 100% certain tells. You need more information to make decisions in these situations, of course, but I'm just answering your question.