Can I look at one more here?

blackaces13 · #1 03-25-2005, 09:16 AM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, MP2 calls, Hero...?

J.DP · #2 03-25-2005, 09:22 AM

You've got about 3-4 outs for your 9s and Jacks and probably 1-1.5 outs for your backdoor straight and flush draws.

This looks like an easy call getting 7-1 with only one player to act after you.

Also at Party 0.5/1 you often have excellent implied odds.

deepsquat · #3 03-25-2005, 09:24 AM

yep, with backdoor draws and Jacks u can if u are confident button wont raise.

Easystreet · #4 03-25-2005, 09:35 AM

This is one of those hands that I have real difficulty with trying to work out my outs in the short amount of time available on the net. If I was playing the hand I would probably call but I am often too loose in these situations.

I will take a shot at trying to work out your outs assuming you are behind which is a reasonable assumption with this board and against so many opponents.

You have got 3 outs to the nine and 2 outs for the jack. You also have a backdoor flush draw and an eight, ten or queen will give you a gut shot but it's difficult to know how much to allow for these. You also have to take into account that button could raise the flop and decrease your odds. We have to discount some of your outs for the possible holdings of your opponents (this is the part I find difficult) is it reasonable to give a total out count of 5 in which case a call is probably ok. Like I said though these type of situations are extremely difficult for me.

whatever · #5 03-25-2005, 09:44 AM

Would anyone consider a raise here trying to buy the button? If everything works out you might even be able to take a free card on the turn if the SB has something like Kx.

Thoughts?

Easystreet · #6 03-25-2005, 09:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Would anyone consider a raise here trying to buy the button? If everything works out you might even be able to take a free card on the turn if the SB has something like Kx.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just going to post this exact thought but you beat me to it. I quite like the idea of a raise for the reasons you have allready given, not sure if its the correct play though.

Bokonnon · #7 03-25-2005, 10:01 AM

If I understand SSH correctly (and I don't), a raise here makes sense for two reasons:

1) Free card (if you need it)
2) Buy outs by folding the gutshots and bigger 9s

Edit: But wait! The pot is small! No raise... I think you have the outs to call though.

elbuddha · #8 03-25-2005, 10:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Would anyone consider a raise here trying to buy the button? If everything works out you might even be able to take a free card on the turn if the SB has something like Kx.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think I like it. If we are counting on our backdoors, the value of our hand could drop to almost worthless without a favorable turn card. And freecarding most favorable turn cards gives cheap redraws to our opponents. I think we'd rather see the turn for cheap rather than the river, especially in a pot this small.

blackaces13 · #9 03-25-2005, 11:45 AM

I've noticed a lot of peopel make reference to the BD straight draw here. Its a 1 card backdoor gutshot, I don't even think I'd call a turn bet if an 8 or a T fell. I wasn't even considering the straight draw with this one, just the BD flishdraw and the middle pair. I figured I could go with a figure of 4.5-5 outs here. Does this sound about right?

J.DP · #10 03-25-2005, 04:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I've noticed a lot of peopel make reference to the BD straight draw here. Its a 1 card backdoor gutshot, I don't even think I'd call a turn bet if an 8 or a T fell. I wasn't even considering the straight draw with this one, just the BD flishdraw and the middle pair. I figured I could go with a figure of 4.5-5 outs here. Does this sound about right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Small Stakes Hold'em says:

[ QUOTE ]
With two gaps (i.e., queen-ten-eight) they are worth half an out. They come in approximately 1.5 percent of the time, or are about a 66-to-1 dog.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not worth much but still shouldn't be overlooked.

You should probably call a turn bet if a T or an 8 falls since you would have about 7-8 outs getting at least 5-1, probably more because MP2 might call the turn bet and Button might call on the flop. If you add implied odds the call becomes easy.

4.5-5 outs would be about right, depends a lot on your read on SB though.