AK in 4 way capped pot

CheckFold · #1 03-24-2005, 10:08 PM

Ocean's 11 8/16 game on saturday morning. I'm in the big blind. UTG (middle aged asian guy, too loose, a little too aggressive) raises, UTG+1 (who has cold called a lot), cold calls, folded to SB who calls, i see AKo and 3 bet, UTG quickly caps, others call.

Flop is A T 7 rainbow. SB checks, I lead, utg calls, utg+1 raises, sb folds, I call, utg calls. Given the action, how often do you think I'm good here and what is my plan for the rest of the hand?

threeonefour · #2 03-24-2005, 10:36 PM

i threebet that flop... but if the table or UTG+1 was generally passive i might not. I think you are good here more than your fair share.

UTG probably has KK-JJ (of course he could have a lot of other hands perhaps, but unless he wakes up on the turn I wouldn't be too worried). I have no idea what range of hands you can put UTG+1 on and I guess it all depends on your read there.

badinfluence · #3 03-25-2005, 10:31 AM

3 bet the flop. I think you are very good here and plan on leading at this flop for the rest of the hand.

lostinthought · #4 03-25-2005, 12:46 PM

The only reason to not 3 bet here is the setup a check-raise on the turn if you think UTG+1 will fire again on the turn when checked to (assuming a non-threatening turn card).

With that being said, I prefer to 3 bet the flop.

How did the hand finish up?

LarsVegas · #5 03-25-2005, 01:25 PM

Haven't read any of the other responses, but this is a clear 3-bet on the flop.

Failing that, you must now checkraise ANY turn (unless UTG suddenly leads and UTG+1 calls, in which case you could consider calling too). If 3-bet, you must make a crying call down in this enourmous pot, hoping to improve on the river (although if behind on the turn you usually drawing dead anyway) or tie another AK or some other crap you can beat (highly unlikely, but still).

lars

CheckFold · #6 03-25-2005, 01:32 PM

Well, by the time UTG+1 raised on the flop, I thought my hand was so clearly defined (3bet preflop then lead into capper on A high flop) that I had to be beat by aces up or a set.

Given my position, the fact that I can't fold this hand at any point given the size of the pot, and the fact that UTG seemed willing to call down with his 1 or 2 outs (KK or QQ), I decided to call down and go for overcalls.

Turn and river were both blanks, UTG+1 bet both times, utg called turn and mucked the river. UTG+1 showed 76o and MHIG.

I think I probably won the max, but I hated the fact that I played scared. I just have a hard time putting a player on a suicidal move in a big pot in a loose passive game against a clearly defined hand like mine that has no chance of folding. I still feel that in most non-wild live games, I'm usually not good here. Online my standard line would be to shove it down their throat, but absent a strong read, I just can't do it live. I guess my game needs work.

LarsVegas · #7 03-25-2005, 01:34 PM

What would a threatning turn card be? The only threatning turn cards are those who could just as likely give our hero 4 outs when he's already drawing dead on the flop.

I say a Queen or Jack here is just as good as any other card. Assuming hero just calls the checkraise, he should checkraise any turn bet from UTG+1 and pay off a 3-bet.

lars

LarsVegas · #8 03-25-2005, 01:46 PM

The pot is so big that you must be prepared to lose a few bets if you are behind and possibly even drawing dead.

I mean, you were involved in a preflop cap, caught pretty much a dream flop (TPTK without any opportunities for a made flush or a straight, not even a flush draw to worry about).

Actually, had UTG+1 checked down the river behind, his postflop play would be better than yours, even with a crap holding like that. The improved chances of his five-outer draw ending up good with the flop raise is probably worth the small bet on the flop or even two extra had you (correctly) 3-betted it.

lars

CheckFold · #9 03-25-2005, 01:57 PM

so no talk from anyone of keeping utg around with KK-JJ. Why is it so important that I 3 bet and try to blow him off his hand on the flop, or check raise and knock him out on the turn if he's still there, especially given the way ahead/way behind nature of my holding?

marrek · #10 03-25-2005, 02:13 PM

Because the pot is big, i would want to win it as soon as possible and not give the others cheap chances to draw. If there weren't any raises pre-flop, then maybe i would slowplay, but with a big pot i am not giving anything away.

Also, depending on exactly what his hand is, you may be giving UTG correct odds to draw by no 3-betting the flop, which means you're giving up a little bit of equity.

Marrek