First hand of my first live tourney and I am crippled please help

[rockythecat99]

K blinds If I remember correctly are 50/100 and starting stacks are 4k. Very first hand of tourney. I am CO with AKo
Utg+1 limps in , Utg+2 limps, folded over to me. I make it 300 to go. Blinds fold , Utg+1 fold , Utg+2 folds. Now I think he has a small pair so flop comes QQ8 rainbow. Villain checks hero makes standard continuation bet of about half the pot 350. Villain calls. Turn comes 2 check check, river comes Ace giving me top two pair. Villain bets 2000. Now I for sure think he is trying to steal and I call he shows me KQo. Please help thinking it over I think my pf raise was too small with two limpers already in and my river call was way too loose but I guess being my first live tourney hand I was bound to make mistakes. How should i have played this?

[b0000000000m]

This would be a very bold steal attempt on his part, given your actions thus far in the hand. You are likely to have an ace in your hand, and he overbets the pot on the river when the ace falls, to the tune of over half his stack?

Think about his likely holdings. I can't put him on anything that was helped by an ace, unless he is a very, very weak player and then I think maybe AT or a suited ace. He would have to be a very unusual breed of weak player to limp with AT in EP. (The other alternative is that he is a very strong player, who likes to see a lot of flops and is hoping to hit two pair--also not likely).

So he probably wasn't helped by the ace. This means he either already has you beat (by a queen or a pocket pair that hit the set), or is making a very gutsy steal attempt, for a large portion of his stack. If he was indeed helped by the ace and is holding AT or a suited ace, it would be very unusual for him to bet into you like this on the end.


IMO, this is a difficult decision, but unless you have reason to believe he is a terrible, terrible player I think you have to lay it down.

[betgo]

A larger preflop raise is more standard. I wouldn't say your raise is bad. Even though it is early, you don't mind pciking up the pot with a raise to 500. I think you see why given the results of this hand.

When you bet the flop small but checked the turn, villain may have put you on AK or AJ. He figured you would call a big bet when the ace hit. Since it looks like you have an ace, why is he making a big overbet when an ace hits? Still this is hard to fold.

[Woody09]

Not that hard considering the time in the tourney, and the size of the blinds.

[Rick Diesel]

First, it looks like in your post that everyone folded to your raise pre-flop, so you should win the pot there. Assuming that one of the limpers did call, here is how I would play it differently...

First, with starting stacks of only 40BB, this tournament is truely structured terribly. If it was folded to you, then a raise to 300 is fine. However, you should really add 1BB to your raise for each limper in front of you, so you should have raised to 500-600.

After that, it is tough to put the opponent on a Q. I would probably have played it close to the same way you did post flop.

[rockythecat99]

I put villain on a small pair 88-55, I didn't put him on KQ,KJ,even AQ figured he wouldn't call knowing he was dominated with all these holdings. I figured he would put me on AK or big pair AA-TT. His check call on the flop made me think he had a pair and figured I had missed. His overbet shouldve sent warning bells especially after his flop call. Anyway I kept watching this guy after this and he was just horrible. I mean calling reraises with pocket 5s and KJs. He was one big tell after my hand. He would sigh and fold, smile and win. I mean fish to be had. I guess I just go unlucky still I definitely shouldve made a bigger pf bet. Oh yeah fish won a big pt up after he limps,raised ,reraised to him and he calls. Holdings were fish 55, raiser AK,reraiser 99, fish flops a set.
Sorry I mean utg+2 called. Sorry about that.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't put him on KQ,KJ,even AQ figured he wouldn't call knowing he was dominated with all these holdings.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the buyin for this tournament? Early on, you will frequently find people calling with all sorts of junk, as you saw.

[rockythecat99]

Buyin was 125, it was at the taj in Ac. I think the blinds might have been 25/50. Whatever the case I lost half my stack on that hand. I had made the buy in money at a ring game an hour before so it wasnt' that big of a deal but as soon as I got dealt AKo as my first hand I had a bad feeling. Yes people at the taj are horrible hold em players but I figured that no one was that dumb to waste 125 in a tourney and play like garbage. I stand corrected.

[Avgard]

Your post states that everyone folded to your raise. I assume you had one caller.

Pre-flop - standard raise is 3-4 x big blind plus one big blind for every limper. You probably want the riase to be 500-600.

Post-flop - you got checked to and you fired a shot representing a big pair. You got called. What did you put your opponent on here? It is important to have a range of hands for your opponent.

Turn - check, check - what hand range do you have your opponent on?

River - Ace - now you must go through the hand range analysis. With your opponent betting out on the ace and over betting the pot, what did you think he had? You stated you thought he was buying the pot, I have a hard time with that with how the hand was played.

Your opponent limped , then just called a raise out of position (probable not AA - QQ, or AK - though it could be). On the flop, which hands would you check call with. There is no staight (other than gut shot) or flush possibilities. If he had a pair, he would probably raise to test the waters and find out where his hand is.

Once you check on the turn when a rag comes, he puts you on high cards, AK, AJ maybe KJ - not AQ or KQ as you probably check a rainbow flop with trips. If you had a pair, your betting the turn.

Once the river hits, it is the card that he has to put you on. He overbet the pot. The only hand you can beat is a bluff or AJ.

When he bets the river, I put him on this range of cards. Very bad bluff, any Q, pocket 88, AK (though this is less likely by pre-flop and flop action).

If any card but the Ace came on the river, I would be more inclined to think steal. However, he must put you on an ace.

Another way of looking at it is how would you play any Q or pocket 88. I would think if you flopped a full house or trips, you would check to the pre-flop raiser to bet. With the flop not having a straight or flush draw, you would flat call. With a rag on the turn, check again and hope your opponent has a big pair, but it is checked back. When the ace hits, that made your opponent's hand and you would bet big into him.

From the villian's perspective, if he checked to you on the river, you would value bet for 600 to 1000, he check raises you and you fold (if you fold). that route gave him 600 - 1000. Betting into your made hand got him 2000. It was a good move on his part.

[rockythecat99]

Avgard this is exactly the same train of thought I went through after the fact. I did feel nervous playing my first live tourney and first hand. Online it wouldve thought more. The range of hands I put him on were not big 88-55. I didn't think he had high cards like KJ,KQ, AQ. Just not likely someone limps in and calls with that. AA-QQ, AK didn't enter my mind either as it was the first hand he was utg+2 with a caller already and 6 players to act. Just too unlikely you want that many limpers with those types of hands. His flop call made me 70% certain he had a pair and he put me on high cards and figured I was trying to buy the pot. The checks on the turn just made me think this was the case and he was afraid I did have the queen and he was not going to lose more money on this hand. The overbet on the river I didn't knwo what to think. i got nervous and anxious with the ace there and figured I was good. I shouldve thought more and folded this. But thanks for the response because after playing the hand back in my head hundreds of times I think I made two huge mistakes. My pf bet was too small and my river call was just terrible. Too early in the tourney for that call.