extracting max/losing min

DireWolf · #1 03-23-2005, 12:17 PM

whats my line here with tens.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (6 max, 9 handed) converter

BB (t800)
UTG (t1440)
UTG+1 (t425)
MP1 (t740)
MP2 (t770)
MP3 (t785)
Hero (t1500)
Button (t815)
SB (t725)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
5 folds, Hero raises to t80, 2 folds, BB calls t65.

Flop: (t167.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t150, BB calls t150.

Turn: (t467.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

sofere · #2 03-23-2005, 12:52 PM

Bet less on the flop...I'd say ~100. If he will call 100, he will call 150. You get the same info for 2/3 the price.

The call signals he hit some piece of the flop, but his check shows weakness (or trap)...low Queen, pair of 7s, or a flush draw. I throw out a half pot bet here (which also would have been cheaper if you had bet less on the flop). If he calls or raises, I'm done with the hand.

J-Lo · #3 03-23-2005, 01:10 PM

umm, what buy-in is this? if it's <$50 (which is looks like because chipstacks are ~800) then u should play for set value, no? Decisions can be much easier if u play weak tight, especially early. Sofere's line is good, but i still wait 'til the $50's to start playing marginal situations-- because there are much great $EV situations later in the tourney.

wbrumfiel · #4 03-23-2005, 01:55 PM

I agree, with 10s here and the normal low buyin game even if I raise to 100 pre-flop I usually get called by 2 or 3 people so it makes no sense for me to raise much and if I do Im checking behind with a board that has anything over a T on it. You will have so many more opportunities to take larger pots down later that its not worth it.

shoeman · #5 03-23-2005, 02:06 PM

I most likely play TT for set value here and limp. If I raised, I would make it 50 instead of 80 to keep the pot small.

The flop bet if fine as you have shown strength and the BB checked to you. If you raised less pre-flop than a bet of 80-100 would be fine. Check behind on the turn and check/call a small bet on the river provided a diamond doesn't come.

This should keep the pot smaller and help you get to the river cheaply with a marginal hand. It's tough to extract the most without risking the most and this isn't the hand you want to be risking the most with.

sofere · #6 03-23-2005, 02:14 PM

I used to think this way...hard and fast no set no bet. But lately I've been learning to pick my spots to play them. Of course the stack sizes on Stars (1500 chips) makes it a lot easier to do so.

But heads up in position with medium pockets and one overcard I think its a little too weak tight to let this go without taking a shot. If villain folds, great. If he calls the turn bet, your likely going to be able to check the river (unless he hits his flush or was slowplaying a monster). If you lose, you still have an above average stack. If you win, you'll be in much better bullying position later on.

If there were limpers ahead of you, you limp and play for a set. There are no limpers ahead so you are getting the worst possible pot odds if you're playing for set value. I like the 80 raise. If you get more than one caller, you're in a bit of a pickle with the flop, but heads up, your in great shape.

Phil Van Sexton · #7 03-23-2005, 02:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Bet less on the flop...I'd say ~100. If he will call 100, he will call 150. You get the same info for 2/3 the price.

The call signals he hit some piece of the flop, but his check shows weakness (or trap)...low Queen, pair of 7s, or a flush draw. I throw out a half pot bet here (which also would have been cheaper if you had bet less on the flop). If he calls or raises, I'm done with the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, except I'd bet 150 on the turn if he called on the flop. I'd fold if he played back, and check behind on the river.

The hero does have 1500 chips, so there's no reason to play so cautiously.

sofere · #8 03-23-2005, 02:18 PM

On the contrary, at the lower limits, a bet of 50 will likely make the pot bigger. At this level, 3xbb is chump change. I'd say your much more likely to get 2-3 callers with a 50 bet than you are with an 80 bet.

sofere · #9 03-23-2005, 02:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet less on the flop...I'd say ~100. If he will call 100, he will call 150. You get the same info for 2/3 the price.

The call signals he hit some piece of the flop, but his check shows weakness (or trap)...low Queen, pair of 7s, or a flush draw. I throw out a half pot bet here (which also would have been cheaper if you had bet less on the flop). If he calls or raises, I'm done with the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, except I'd bet 150 on the turn if he called on the flop. I'd fold if he played back, and check behind on the river.

The hero does have 1500 chips, so there's no reason to play so cautiously.

[/ QUOTE ]

With a called 100 bet on the flop, half the pot would be about 175-200.

shoeman · #10 03-23-2005, 02:28 PM

Very true, I never considered that. I was doing my calculations based upon the 1 caller. I want to say play for set value, but there isn't much value with no callers in front. I still think I raise less here but I could be wrong.