Mentioning the rake on a nut straight river...(Ethical?)

Thigh · #1 03-23-2005, 11:55 AM

Question: Have any of you all ever mentioned to other players about the rake when they're putting in money in the pot, and the nut hand is on the board.

Is it stupid to do that? Is it ethical? Here's what happened yesterday...

The board on the river:

T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

3 players left in the hand. Player one bets, player two raises...

At this point, I type the following message in the message window...

Rake???

I call the two bets, player one calls. Then that's it.

Should I have not said anything? Should I raise and hope one of them doesn't notice and folds their hand? I mean, if all three stay in for the cap, we've done nothing but driven down our BR because of the rake.

The musings of a not-so-wise man...

xenthebrain · #2 03-23-2005, 12:33 PM

Well, I think you did the right thing. With rasing and reraising you just feed the rake, and even if these guys didn't recognized that the nuts was on the board they wouldn't fold a straight.
But it's quite nice sometimes when a good hand like this is on the board but you are holding the nut flush and the others raise with the boardhand [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

kenberman · #3 03-23-2005, 12:37 PM

I'm not sure it's a question of 'ethics', but rather weighing the risk of increased rake vs. the chance that you eliminate 1 opponent.

I think there is little chance you eliminate 1 opponent, but stranger things have happened. w/o knowing the pot size, you can't work through the actual EV of the situation.

As far as increasing the rake goes, that may or may not be relevant. The raising may increase the rake to the next "rake threshold", but it might also not be enough to trigger an additional cut.

So, (without me knowing the pot size) I probably don't say anything, and call, b/c I don't think chatting or rasing will accomplish anything, and may cost me something. If it's a huge pot, my answer might change.

Matt Jenko · #4 03-23-2005, 12:40 PM

If rake has already been capped then I would keep quiet and reraise and hope someone really doesn't know what they are doing. If not, I would prob keep quiet anyway [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Thigh · #5 03-23-2005, 12:46 PM

I, for some reason, thought the rake was a percentage. If it's in stages, I'll have to check the rates out.

The post was 10.5 BB on the turn at .25/.50 limit. It ended up at 15.5.

zeropotential · #6 03-23-2005, 12:48 PM

how does rake work for your average site? (where can i find info on this)
little facts like this make decisions like this easier

generally i'm just calling here, if it handed been bet/raised behind you i'm deffinitly playing aggressive and hoping for a slip

phlup · #7 03-23-2005, 01:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
how does rake work for your average site? (where can i find info on this)
little facts like this make decisions like this easier

generally i'm just calling here, if it handed been bet/raised behind you i'm deffinitly playing aggressive and hoping for a slip

[/ QUOTE ]

Generally information regarding the rake can be found on the main website of place you're playing at. It's going to change based on the level you play at. I guess some places might be a percentage, but from what I've seen it tends to be a flat rate that's taken when the pot reaches a certain sizes.

As far as this question specifically, it's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't. I once saw this same thing happen and the two idiots went into a raising war. When the pot finally split they were both 50 cents shorter stacked than they were when they started the hand.

kenberman · #8 03-23-2005, 01:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I, for some reason, thought the rake was a percentage. If it's in stages, I'll have to check the rates out.

The post was 10.5 BB on the turn at .25/.50 limit. It ended up at 15.5.

[/ QUOTE ]

the rake is a bit different for every site/limit, but it's generally somewhere around 5%, taken in incremental steps.

So, you would need to look at the rake structure for .25/50 games, at whatever site this was at, to see what $ pot sizes triggers rake increases.

w/o working through the numbers, I would have to say the EV of the situation is real close, and this situation doesn't come up enough for it to be a *big* decision to make.

also, as you move up in limits, this type of decision becomes less important/relavant, as the the rake cap (usually $3) will be in effect much of the time.

SomethingClever · #9 03-23-2005, 01:15 PM

I've seen people fold when it's obvious everyone is playing the board.

Raise 'er up.

TomBrooks · #10 03-23-2005, 01:34 PM

I once raised a board straight in a .5/1 game and folded the person behind me leaving a two way split. I actually felt bad for them as it has to be so embarrassing for them, but on the other hand, I taught them something if they were paying attention.

I haven't played other than .5/1, but I'm going to guess this would hardly ever work at 1/2 and almost never work at 2/4 or above as the players presumably would have enough experience not to make this mistake.

TomBk