Worst play ever? 30+3 MTT bubbled 72nd -- top 70 pay

gr8vertical · #1 03-23-2005, 06:34 AM

The guy that raised had been stealing blinds all day long and I was the BB so I figured I would call the min raise ( First mistake I assume?) and see a flop. Needless to say, I picked up a flush draw and said F* it hoping for a fold. Didn't happen. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

I'm sure the responses are: Well were you playing to get ITM or to win? I would have loved to get at least my buy in back but also didn't like the idea of pussyfooting around trying to just make the 50 bucks or whatever it was.

Anyways, I guess just tell me what you MTT'ers would have done in this situation.

One funny sidenote, during the tourney I was looking at a Hand history and the poker table popped up and i hit raise on accident. I had 72os....Blew like 1lk in chips just cuz of that [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (9 handed) converter

SB (t7449)
Hero (t7132)
UTG (t11265)
UTG+1 (t2820)
MP1 (t8730)
MP2 (t3180)
MP3 (t10477)
CO (t10558)
Button (t5267)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP3 raises to t1200, 3 folds, Hero calls t600.

Flop: (t2700) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

gr8vertical3 bets [2000].
NextChampion raises [6600].
gr8vertical3 is all-In [3932]

Turn: (t2700) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t2700) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t2700

Results in white below: 
Hero has 4s Js (one pair, kings).
MP3 has 8s Ah (two pair, aces and kings).
Outcome: MP3 wins t2700.

DarkKnight · #2 03-23-2005, 01:23 PM

First, unless MP3 had been stealing with min raises all along, I'd expect his min raise to be a trap looking for action - I'd usually fold preflop in this situation - what does a good flop for you look like?

Flop
Not sure you should make a try here but if you do...
Your bet was way too big - if he's going to fold for 2700 he'll fold for 2000 he should fold for 1500.

An added benefit of betting less is that it puts you further from having the correct odds to call if he puts you all in making the fold easier.

That being said, it's close but I don't think you have the odds to call his all in. A fold here leaves you with 6+ BB's - not alot but not quite crippled.

So in summary...
fold preflop
check fold the flop
if you bet, make a smaller probe bet
fold to the all-in

mrbaseball · #3 03-23-2005, 01:35 PM

I'd fold pre flop unless I was really seeing too much aggression from him. Then I'd push. And on the flop you should push if you didn't preflop. You want him to fold right? Don't fool around with giving him odds to call. Although it appears he missed the flop substancially enough to fold and didn't.

But if you think he's stealing and you want him to lay it down push preflop. On the bubble most guys won't call this without AK or better.

betgo · #4 03-23-2005, 02:31 PM

I think you played it OK. Villain priced you in with the miniraise. I would probably fold here, but calling isn't too bad. This isn't too bad a hand to push with preflop on a semibluff. However, I would only make this play if I thought villain was stealing or terrified of busting out on the bubble.

On the flop, I like the push on the semibluff. A lot of people would lay down A8 here. You were about even with him at that time: you just lost the coinflip. You could have made a smaller raise so that it would look less like you have a flush draw, but all the moneyis going in either way.

I don't pay too much attention to the bubble is these MTTs, except as how it effects other players.

gr8vertical · #5 03-23-2005, 02:35 PM

Thanks for the input guys, I think next time I'll just fold a hand like this preflop even if I think he is on a steal.

This forum is the best thing to happen to my poker game. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

C-Dog · #6 03-23-2005, 02:39 PM

After you have called, seen the flop, and liked it. I think you should push the flop. The advantage to pushing over betting is that it makes it clear to the opponent that he isnt pushing you off the hand. If you are gonna fold to his raise, then make a bet, but if you are going to call that raise, then you would have been better off to have put all your chips in agressively.

C-Dog

AtticusFinch · #7 03-23-2005, 02:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the input guys, I think next time I'll just fold a hand like this preflop even if I think he is on a steal.

This forum is the best thing to happen to my poker game. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Your hand sucks, so folding is fine. Calling is awful, because if he is on a steal he could hit almost any flop. He will therefore be very difficult to read.

If you have a good read that he is stealing, the best move is to raise big PF. Just think if you'd have pushed PF here. He'd almost certainly have folded, especially if past steals against you have been successful.

One of my favorite ways to get easy chips near the bubble is to push with trash against an obvious steal, then show. Folks are much more reluctant to steal against you after that.

EverettKings · #8 03-23-2005, 02:50 PM

J4s isn't the hand you want to stand up to a bully. But given that you saw the flop, against a bully, you should check/fold or just push. The decision between pushing and check/folding the flop depends on his post-flop aggression/looseness.

However, it's silly to bet less than all in if youre going to call the all in. You might as well just push and further discourage a call. If you bet he may come over the top with a hand like AJ or 66, but calling the all in straight is harder.

But mucking preflop is the best solution.

-Kings

#9 03-23-2005, 02:52 PM

Fold PF. Whether your goal is to be ITM or to win is immaterial at this point. Several factors: you are above the 10xBB threshold to be desperate; you are in BB and approaching several chances to wait for better opportunities; you are butting heads with a Laggish opponent who can break you. Sometimes when cold cards come in bunches for what looks like forever and your opponent seems to be bullying the table with impunity impatience sets in and pseudo-high cards like J4s start looking golden.