Made a bad bluff or genius?

ezratei · #1 03-21-2005, 11:16 PM

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (7 handed) converter

Button ($222.2)
SB ($591)
BB ($229)
UTG ($522.4)
MP1 ($204.95)
MP2 ($268.3)
Hero ($737.6)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $4, MP1 raises to $15, MP2 calls $15, Hero calls $15, 3 folds, UTG calls $11.

Flop: ($66) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets $20, MP2 calls $20, Hero raises to $60, UTG calls $60, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $40.

Turn: ($266) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

River: ($266) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets $30, MP2 calls $30, Hero raises to $120, UTG folds, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: $446

What do people think, bet out on the turn? Not a big enough raise on the end? Or perfection at hand?

Mad Genius1 · #2 03-21-2005, 11:42 PM

You do realize that the pot is $356 and it's only $90 for them to call, right? If it was one player it might be okay, but given that there is a bettor AND a caller before you, I can't see both of them folding very often.

Put it another way: Almost any hand that beats you will call for $90 more. If anything, it's better to call than to raise that small, since there is probably a tiny chance that your pair is good.

etizzle · #3 03-21-2005, 11:51 PM

yeah raise bigger. It just happened that you were against a worse hand than yours this time.

If you really want to fold a better hand you need to raise more IMO.

ezratei · #4 03-22-2005, 12:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
yeah raise bigger. It just happened that you were against a worse hand than yours this time.

If you really want to fold a better hand you need to raise more IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that a bigger raise on the river is in order. However, i disagree that i was ahead in the hand ... I believe I got a 9 to fold, which was exactly my intention. I wanted to make a bluff that most people with a 9 would fold to, while risking the least if i was up against a player who would call down almost anything with a 9.

The fact that I was up against 2 people makes this small bluff MORE effective in most situations I think.

SpeakEasy · #5 03-22-2005, 01:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that a bigger raise on the river is in order. However, i disagree that i was ahead in the hand ... I believe I got a 9 to fold, which was exactly my intention. I wanted to make a bluff that most people with a 9 would fold to, while risking the least if i was up against a player who would call down almost anything with a 9.

The fact that I was up against 2 people makes this small bluff MORE effective in most situations I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

UTG was probably on a draw that didn't get there, and his teeny bet on the end was based on the assumption that his two opponents were also on draws that didn't get there.

MP2 probably has the 9, and you convinced him that you had the K.

I disagree with the premise of your last statement. The fact that there are two other players in this hand is not a factor that makes this bluff "more effective in most situations." I don't think you can generalize any rule from this hand. This looks to be situation specific and you get credit for a good read, although you got somewhat lucky with a weak raise. A bigger raise was in order on the river because the majority of time MP2 is going to call $90 to win $446, getting nearly 5 to 1 on his call. The break even point to make this exact situation work the majority of time, in my estimation, is probably a raise that ensures the caller is getting less than 3 to 1 on his call.