What Separates The Bigger MTT Winners From The Smaller Ones?

There must be some subtle differences in strategical concepts between the bigger, guaranteed and the smaller (20 to 50) tourneys that I still do not recognize. I have a fairly good track record in the smaller ones, S&Gs and sats for the guaranteed. But everytime I play the big ones, I cannot go deeper and over the hump, barely making it past the 2nd hour. Yet, I see the MLGs, bugstuds, Dons, CSCs, Times, et. al, cashing in and winning week in and week out. Last night, for example I did not even made it past the first in Party's quarter mil. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] And then while playing in the 30+3, occasionally sweated Don and watched him make it to the last 4 or 5 tables. With the tougher competition, slightly deeper stack and longer levels, any suggestions the winning trouts may care to share. I'd like to know before the April mil to which I already qualified. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Thanks a million in advance.

P.S. I hope I did not offend those whose names I omitted. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[SpeakEasy]

The players that finish in the money at the bigger MTT play in A LOT of tournaments?

[MLG]

Appearences can be deceiving. I went 2 months without a meaningful cash before my last big score. MTTs are very very swingy, more so than most people realize. You simply don't hear about it when we don't cash, its no big deal, its expected.

That said, I think you don't gamble enough early.

[Ulysses]

there are plenty of skills
that are discussed
but playing a lot
and having good luck
those are a must

as an example
take young schaefer
he plays his cards right
does all he can do
but still gets it all in
as a dog 1 to 2
he gets lucky
and makes 350k plus
otherwise our hero
comes back with zero

[Simplistic]

part of it is making the right decision so you survive for a long time, even if you're getting all your money in with Aces 5 times in a row, you're likely to go broke at least once.

so part of it is making the right decisions, other part is exploiting the edges, and the rest is luck [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[MLG]

[ QUOTE ]
part of it is making the right decision so you survive for a long time,

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Its the exact opposite of this.

[frozenhops]

I have had this large multi jump problem as well, and recently (since I started heavily browsing 2+2) have hopefully fixed a lot of leaks in my game. I have had fantastic results in 30ish person tourneys, yet that never translated into larger ones. I finally started becoming more aggressive and after a slew of bubbles, I finished 2/159 in one, and hope to start transitioning to a bit more MTT.

The largest change i've made that has helped me is selective pushing/playing more aggressive to stay ahead of the curve late in the game, even if I do bust at a higher %, i'm in much better position once the bubble comes/goes, and that you can't be afraid to get your money in the middle.

[GtrHtr]

[ QUOTE ]

That said, I think you don't gamble enough early.

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Very interesting insight MLG. I was playing in a MTT last night on UB and doubled up easy early on (had the nuts so easy call). Just before the 1st break I am sitting on 99 in the BB and call a small all in MP. Flop is 44x this 1st hour maniac who had also called goes all in, and I fold after some thought (I had twice his stack size). Manic turns over J10o and Mr. all in short stack had 55. Low and behold a 9 comes on the turn and I start throwing stuff around the room when Mr. short stack all in says "looks like I'm back in business."

I've gotta do a better job at building my stack in the first 2 hours because there is no doubt that I will get a run of bad cards at some point. I have been focussing on my SnG game and need to mentally switch gears in am MTT better.

[Tim H]

i spent some time going through my hand history of the last 2 major tourneys i placed high in and I noticed 2 things.

This is might be the opposite of what you normally hear but this is what happened in my circumstances.
1. I got "lucky" and doubled about halfway through first hour.

2. Exploited my chip position to build from there so at the end of the first hour I was at 4x and 5x orignal stack

3. 2nd/3rd hour play only premium hands and steal enough (for me about 1 time every 2 rotations) to stay around the average chips or above. Both times I was still at 4x to 5x towards end of next hour and doubled on good hands when everyone starts to get desparate

4. I never slow played anything. If i had top pair/trips I over-bet it. Exception was a couple nut flushs on unpaired boards (edit: never slowplayed against someone who could push me in or damage my stack. Against someone 1/2 my stack size I let them put themselves in)

5. Didn't play anything immediately after bubble unless it was a good hand or I had position and it was cheap

6. Survived to final table by taking on the SS allins

7. Crap shoot at end, wait to push until all lower stacks are cleaned up, or you have the better of it

Anyhow thats how it went for me, don't know if it helps

[slickpoppa]

Here are some thoughts that I posted a couple of weeks ago:

[ QUOTE ]
First of all, you are probably not as bad at MTTs as you think. You're expectations are probably much too high. If there are 1000 people in an online tournament, the average player has about a 1/100 chance of making the final table. If you are a good player, then maybe you have a 1/75 chance of making the final table. If you are a great player, you have maybe a 1/50 chance. What does that mean? It means that even a great player has a 13% chance of playing in 100 tournaments and never making the final table ( (49/50)^100 ). That is just the nature of online tournaments. There is A LOT of luck involved. Skill can only take you so far. To finish at the top you must catch a lot of great cards and win a lot of coin flips.


IMO there are four things that separate the great MTT players from the good ones: (1) Stealing, (2) capitalizing on small edges, (3) maximizing value, and (4) all-in free throws.

(1) Great tournament players know that the best way to build your stack with little risk is to steal pots. These players also know how to find the weaktight players who will fold too much.

(2) Great online players also respect the high variance in online MTTs and are willing to exploit small edges. They are also great at spotting these situations. A great online MTT will be able to spot situations in which he is a 55/45 favorite and get all of his money in the pot.

(3) Great online players know that situations in which you are a huge favorite can be few and far between. Great players know how to extract every last penny out of these situations. Great players will not pussy out of value betting a river when they probably have someone outkicked becuase they know that every chip not gained is a chip lost.

(4) Great online players also know that in most tournaments they play, they will reach a point where they must go all-in or fold. Great players have studied these situations before they play and do not have to play guessing games when it comes time to move in.


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Note: It would be great if any hardcore MTTer had records of thier finishes and earnings as a function of buy-in and # of entrants. Although the variance in MTTs is really high, some poeople play so many that it should be possible to get a reasonable approximation of expectation.