I'm Going to Back a Poker Player...Help me with Contract?(long)

[tripdad]

i've been playing with this guy for several months now, and he is the best player i've personally ever seen/played against. he's a live pro, playing in local pot limit/no limit games in my area, and goes once or twice a week to a riverboat an hour or so away to play $10/20 limit.

he has 4 kids and is a single dad with no health insurance. he doesn't really have the opportunity to bankroll a lot of his winnings, though he does have an adequate live roll.

he plays very sparingly on the internet. he says he relies heavily on reads in order to make much of his profit, and doesn't feel he gets good reads on the internet. the thing i see, though, is just very solid play from a mathematical standpoint...only occasionally will he "make a move" on someone...just often enough to get good action with his big hands.

i have not yet proposed to him a specific deal as far as backing him. i've only asked if he would be interested in such a deal, to which he said he probably couldn't turn it down. the thing is, i want this to be profitable for him as well as me, and don't know what percentage of his profit i should ask for.

my initial thoughts: i will buy a new laptop with high resolution screen so he can multi-table. i will get pokertracker for him. i will put up an adequate bankroll for him. he will sign up to a site of my choice under my affiliate program and not give him "rake back". he will pay me 10% of his profits monthly. he would also get his cut only once per month. i would go to his house, inspect his p-tracker stats, and his online account history to be sure he is not withdrawing funds more often than once a month. when i am paid in full, plus 10% on my investment, only then will he start getting "rake back". i would want also to require him to play a certain number of hands per month, and a minimum number of total hands before kicking him back the rake(because that's where i'll be making the bulk of my profit), regardless how quickly he makes good on the computer/expenses.

i feel very strongly that he can make a lot more online than he can in our live games(though he does very well). a lot more hands, rake back, always an available game at whatever limit he wants to play. he just doesn't trust online for some reason. i want to take the apprehension away by letting him play with my money.

1) what do you think of my initial thoughts as to a possible deal? should i get more? less?

2) does anyone have a standard contract they use that they would be willing to share here?

cheers!

[La Brujita]

I think you are getting way too low of a percentage. Given the risk is entirely on you I think you should get 50% for a long term stake if there were no rakeback twist. I may be wrong but that seems about right for what I have seen.

That being said it is very hard to dermine how the rakeback twist will effect things unless you add more information such as hands per month, stakes, expected hourly rate etc.

[James282]

Cool looking deal, but I'd take 25%.
-James

[tripdad]

[ QUOTE ]
Cool looking deal, but I'd take 25%.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

even though he must pay me back 110% of my investment? understand, this is not a typical long term backing situation...once he returns my investment, plus some for profit, he's off the take. are you saying i should require him to pay me back 125% of my investment?

also, how should i write the contract? i want this to be legal, even though i would likely have no recourse other than to hurt him if he screws me, as he has no job. i'm 99.9% sure he would never screw me, but one must always allow for that possibility.

cheers!

[pokerstudAA]

What state are you in?

In most, gambling contracts are unenforceable. You might come up with a great deal with a solid written contract and have a court do nothing about it. I would definately trust the person you are dealing with because you chance of recourse if you get screwed is very slim.

Possible to make the computer a loan/installment sale. Make the bankroll a loan. Be sure whatever deal you work out leaves the gambling aspects of the arrangement with the minimum focus. Whatever you do I would not expect a deal that is 100% sure to be enforcable.


US: Gambling contracts that contravene (go against) state statutes are deemed illegal

ILLINOIS:
All agreements, which relate to wagers or gambling with the exception of horse racing, are also illegal and void ...

[tripdad]

i'm in Indiana. this will essentially be a loan, but the gambling aspect must be in the contract, because i need to stipulate that he must play X number of hands per month.

the thing i can't have is him simply avoiding playing because he likes the social aspect of live play better. i need to make sure he plays. i can't have my money tied up forever.

cheers!

[pokerstudAA]

Even in the few states where limited state-approved, land-based casino gambling has been authorized, all forms of gambling not explicitly authorized by constitution and/or statute are still considered illegal.

For example, although many forms of gambling are now legal in Indiana, they are only legal because the legislature passed laws specifically authorizing them. Such operations are subject to state licensing restrictions. Specifically, Indiana permits state-approved lotteries,57 licensed pari-mutuel wagering on horse races,58 bingo events, charity game nights and raffles by "licensed qualified organizations,"59 and licensed riverboat gambling in explicitly authorized counties.60 Aside from statutorily authorized and licensed gambling, however, all other gambling is illegal in Indiana.61

To that end, Indiana's law defines "unlawful gambling" activity, a Class B misdemeanor, as the knowing or intentional "risking [of] money or other property for gain, contingent in whole or in part upon lot, chance, or the operation of a gambling device."62 Similarly, Indiana's code makes it a Class D felony to act as a professional gambler and/or to promote professional gambling.63

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/journals...html/text.html


I do not think I would mention gambling or # of poker hands played per month in the contract - it definately will not be enforced in court and may get you into extra trouble.

[tripdad]

thanks for the advice. i am going to have to write an unenforceable contract, because i can't leave those things out. i'm not too concerned about being busted, otherwise i wouldn't play in illegal card games every week. these are shotgun games, if you know what i mean, with unsavory characters and all...drug dealers, contractors, real estate agents, even a judge...you know the type.

cheers!


cheers!

[pokerjo22]

If everything is set up in your name, to your neteller account etc., you could always just stop the deal and close the account etc. if you felt he wasn't playing enough hands per month. Just an idea.

[tripdad]

he would have his own neteller account.

cheers!