Doing what you think...

[Pepsquad]

I just read a great article in the new CardPlayer issue by Lee Jones, where he discusses "Do what you think". After I honestly reflected on this, I realized this is a huge leak in my limit-game. In my SNG and MTT play I find it much easier to do this, but I'm willing to bet that during my average session of 3-Tabling limit, I cannot count on a single hand the number of times I find myself thinking "What the **** am I doing?!" Yet, sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, I click "call" while shaking my head, as though I have no choice in the matter.

I must vow to stop doing this! Without having any numbers to back it up, I'm estimating this is at least a 1BB/100 leak. Here's two examples from today alone...

I'm on the button with Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] . UTG+1 limps, MP raises, I 3-bet and both call. Flop comes A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] . Bet...raise...me? I AM beat. I know this with everything in my heart. What do I do? I mutter "damn" and overcall.

Second example. I'm SB with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] . Flop comes 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] . 6 to the flop and betting is capped on the flop and turn. Again, I AM beat. It's not a question of if...it's how bad.

Soooo, anyone else suffer from this problem (and willing to admit it)? I vow to stop doing this immediately. After 3 1/2 years and hundreds of thousands of hands, I've developed a 6th sense where just by the action alone I can typically tell where I'm at in a hand and then it's just a matter of pot/implied odds (Not bragging since I've just admitted there are many times I choose to simply ignore it). My new goal for this week is to "do what I think" on every single hand and not put a single dime in the pot while thinking "What the **** am I doing?"

We'll see if I can. Anyone else?

Pep.

[Boltsfan1992]

Hiya -

It happened last week to me when I played live. This was my last hand, because I think this mistake was so huge, I just needed to get out of there. Luckily, I needed to get some dinner before my tournament.

I'm UTG + 1 with K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] .

UTG limps, I raise, MP calls, button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG checks. I bet. MP raises. Button and blinds fold. UTG calls. I call.

UTG is a TAG, MP is a player that just joined. I just *know* he has an A. However, not sure...but it doesn't help when...

Turn A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG checks. Now, my brain is saying, "Dude, MP has an Ace-rag or made his two pair Ace and some part of the flop, and UTG has the higher kicker STOP! CHECK! FOLD! YOU ARE BEAT! (yes, it WAS that loud [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

What do I do? um...bet...

The river doesn't matter. MP had a A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG had A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Online I listen more to the voices in my head (not sure if that's a good thing [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]), but I'm learning to play better live. Hopefully, I will. If I listened to what my brain told me, I could have had taken home more.

You're not alone.

PB

[Mayhap]

In my personal lexicon of poker pathology, I call this syndrome of which I am oft subject, 'hot hand hypnosis'.

/M

[ne14poker]

I'm a little behind in my reading, but I need to comment because lots of us have the same problem. I like your example with the QQ. It is my best money winning hand. I think it is because I'm more willing to put it down than AA, KK or AK.

You alluded to your first problem, three-tabling. I'm as guilty as anyone else, but I can't play my A game that way. I'm really just playing cards by the numbers, but I'd rather do that and get more action than play good poker. The need for action only contributes to my inclination to call when I'm dominated. Things can start to snowball.

I realized that if I fold a hand on one table and play another, I seldom see that my laydown was good. Even though I think it was, I don't get to pat myself on the back for it unless I go back through the hand history. I periodically play at a single table to practice discipline.

Once I feel better playing at a single table, I go back to multi tabling. I catch myself making fewer mistakes but it is still a B- game.

[revots33]

Yes, I am also guilty of talking myself into calling a river bet even when I KNOW I'm beat.

What happens with me is, I start thinking of the poker books I've read that talk about stuff like: "folding the winning hand on the river is a catastrophic mistake", and "your opponents are bluffing more often then you realize", and "you only have to be right a small percentage of the time to make a call correct", etc.

That's the problem with reading a lot of poker books. It's possible to take something from the books out of context, and use it to rationalize incorrect play. This is a case where I am taking good advice and twisting it to give myself an excuse to make an idiotic call. Anyone else find themselves doing this?

[Pocket Trips]

this happens to me all the time, especially late in my sessions. My last trip down to AC was a disaster after just finishing reading SSHE. About 6 hours into my session I kept hearing the voice in my head quoting the post flop play ssection regarding playing overcards w/backdoor draws...well the 2 or 3 pots i won were not nearly enough to compensate for the bets i called on the flop with NO pair and no immediate draw...Now I know people talk about SSHE around here like its the bible, and I'm not saying there isn't a lot of great advice in the book, but I am saying that playing overcards w/ backdoor draws cost me a lot of $$$ that trip.. easily enough to turn a winning session into a losing one. I think you are correct when you say people use poker books out of context to justify making a bad call/bet. People need to trust their instincts more often. If you have a gut feeling that you are beat, you probably are. Learn to trust your feel for the game and apply the mathematics when necessary, poker is a people game, not one big mathematical equation

[EliteNinja]

[ QUOTE ]
this happens to me all the time, especially late in my sessions. My last trip down to AC was a disaster after just finishing reading SSHE. About 6 hours into my session I kept hearing the voice in my head quoting the post flop play ssection regarding playing overcards w/backdoor draws...well the 2 or 3 pots i won were not nearly enough to compensate for the bets i called on the flop with NO pair and no immediate draw...Now I know people talk about SSHE around here like its the bible, and I'm not saying there isn't a lot of great advice in the book, but I am saying that playing overcards w/ backdoor draws cost me a lot of $$$ that trip.. easily enough to turn a winning session into a losing one. I think you are correct when you say people use poker books out of context to justify making a bad call/bet. People need to trust their instincts more often. If you have a gut feeling that you are beat, you probably are. Learn to trust your feel for the game and apply the mathematics when necessary, poker is a people game, not one big mathematical equation

[/ QUOTE ]

You seriously don't understand SSHE yet. Read it again.

[Pocket Trips]

That was the whole point of my post... I said i took one part of it out of context... Which i believe many people do and then say that they followed the advice in whatever book they are reading and they lost. I have no doubt the advice in SSHE is great when applied correctly. My point was that I did not apply it correctly during this session, but instead of blaming SSHE for my loss as many people will do. I went back and finished reading the entire book. and REREAD sections that didn't seem to make much sense to me the 1st time around... Specifically the section on playing overcards and backdoor draws. I will not make the same mistakes I made last trip to AC this time around. ( i will find brand new mistakes to make [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

[EliteNinja]

[ QUOTE ]
That was the whole point of my post... I said i took one part of it out of context... Which i believe many people do and then say that they followed the advice in whatever book they are reading and they lost. I have no doubt the advice in SSHE is great when applied correctly. My point was that I did not apply it correctly during this session, but instead of blaming SSHE for my loss as many people will do. I went back and finished reading the entire book. and REREAD sections that didn't seem to make much sense to me the 1st time around... Specifically the section on playing overcards and backdoor draws. I will not make the same mistakes I made last trip to AC this time around. ( i will find brand new mistakes to make [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

[/ QUOTE ]

My bad.
I misread your post. Didn't realize you realized your were overplaying your hands.

When I first read SSH, I had big problems with my overcards. I didn't learn how to distinguish whether my overcards were strong or weak. So I was far too overaggressive with weak overcards. But by posting a few hands here and rereading SSH like 4 times, I realized my mistake and now apply SSH a tiny bit better.