Reverse Leak?

Stretch002 · #1 03-17-2005, 05:48 PM

Hello everyone,
Firstly, thanks for all of the terrific information everone seems to post. Although I do not post often I read the forums daily.

I am wondering if I may have a reverse leak. Instead of losing chips via poor hand selection, I think I am failing to extract chips from my opponents when I have the opportunity.

I will occasionally value bet on the river but I am wondering if I am giving my opponents too much credit for hands that they MAY have. Below is an example from last night.

Although I usually fold this hand from this position, I elected to try and limp in knowing I would fold to a raise pre-flop.

In this case I was afraid that one person MIGHT have the Queen or Jack along with a suited random card since I am playing on the 10+1 Party SNG's...these guys seem to call with anything. Would you have played this hand differently? Any tips or insight would be appreciated!

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (10 handed) converter

UTG+1 (t1025)
UTG+2 (t705)
Hero (t770)
MP2 (t345)
MP3 (t600)
CO (t955)
Button (t535)
SB (t895)
BB (t1475)
UTG (t695)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero calls t30, 1 fold, MP3 calls t30, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t120) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t30, MP3 calls t30, SB folds, BB calls t30.

Turn: (t210) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.

River: (t210) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets t30, Hero raises to t100, MP3 calls t100, BB raises to t170, Hero calls t70, MP3 calls t70.

Final Pot: t720

Scuba Chuck · #2 03-17-2005, 06:35 PM

First of all, I think your river play is fine. As there is a minimal probability the villain(s) has a full house. Second of all, the probability that your opponent has a flush when the board has 3 flush cards, and you have two is like 5%. IMO, in SNGs, you just have to go broke assuming you've got the only flush. By the way, you may have the best hand, but you do not have the nuts here.

Finally, I think your preflop call is poor. That's your most glaring leak here.

curtains · #3 03-17-2005, 06:54 PM

I don't like the preflop call, I don't know why you checked on the turn? Your opponents have said they have something by calling you on the flop. Why not charge them money to call with their "something".

Usuaully when someone calls on an AK flop, they have an ace or a king, both ofwhich will likely pay off a reasonable sized turn bet.

sofere · #4 03-17-2005, 07:09 PM

PF call is real bad. On the flop, out of position...check. Turn...why would you try and build the pot on the flop if your not gonna bet out here. River...I have no problem with your line.

Thats enough ellipses for now.

EarlCat · #5 03-17-2005, 07:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Finally, I think your preflop call is poor. That's your most glaring leak here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is limping with a suited connector really so bad while the blinds are still small? Is this bad because of his position or bad regardless?

AtticusFinch · #6 03-17-2005, 07:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Finally, I think your preflop call is poor. That's your most glaring leak here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is limping with a suited connector really so bad while the blinds are still small? Is this bad because of his position or bad regardless?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's lousy because of early position. The time to limp suited connectors is iwn late position with other limpers in front of you, so you get better odds to hit a monster.

microbet · #7 03-17-2005, 07:24 PM

The bet of 30 on the flop doesn't do anything. You have two checks before you and a weakly played preflop, so if you are aggressive here and want to make a semi-bluff that is one thing, and if you want to check/fold when you most likely have the worst hand that is fine too, but why bet 30?

On the turn, bet. An ace will call, a king will probably reraise you big, and a Q, J or even lower lone diamond may call too.

I would be surprised if he has a full house. It is probably worth taking a chance that he doesn't have a better flush. If you push after his reraise he will definately call with a lower flush, probably with a King and maybe even with an ace.

Preflop I would fold, but I don't think it is horrible. If you are going to take chances with drawing hands like this, I think you have to follow through and make them really pay when they hit. 9Ts has the problem that the flush draw isn't always the best one out there, but with the AK out on the board it looks a lot better.

AtticusFinch · #8 03-17-2005, 07:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I don't like the preflop call, I don't know why you checked on the turn? Your opponents have said they have something by calling you on the flop. Why not charge them money to call with their "something".

[/ QUOTE ]

Added to this is the fact that a check/call looks more suspicious when a third flush card falls than a standard bet-out. (The opposite applies to a 4th flush card.)

Also, your flop bet is too small. A minbet has close to 0 folding equity here, and you don't have a made hand to value-bet yet. You're betting into 2 other players. If you're not willing to bet at least 1/2 the pot, just check.

microbet · #9 03-17-2005, 07:27 PM

Right, but in the $11s some tables get limpitus and you can really expect nothing but a lot of limps after you.

On tables that have the crazies you wouldn't even want to limp from the button with this hand, unless the blinds weren't part of the craziness.

[edit: hey, what makes me think it is an $11?]

EarlCat · #10 03-17-2005, 07:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Right, but in the $11s some tables get limpitus and you can really expect nothing but a lot of limps after you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess this is more what I was thinking. Yeah, its bad position, but I don't think I'd lose sleep over throwing 30 chips at suited connectors.