TOUGH ONE - QQ on the button vs. UTG Limp-raiser ??

adamstewart · #1 03-16-2005, 12:46 AM

** This was my third hand after sitting down, so no reads whatsoever **

Okay, so an EP limp-raiser usually means AA or KK, right? So what's the correct line here post-flop, given the HUGE pot and the HUGE number of players??

For the record, when UTG checked the river, I thought my hand my be good, hence the raise. Further, if he had AA or KK, there is the *slight* chance that I may be able to push him off them. Once I was 3-bet by UTG+2, I only called because the pot was so big.

What do you guys think??

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (24 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls $3 (All-In), Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (15 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players, 1 all-in)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB folds.

River: (18 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+2 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 27 BB

Shillx · #2 03-16-2005, 12:51 AM

I would raise the turn. Assuming that he has aces or kings is dangerous in a big pot. Save this read for when a solid or a TAG player limp reraies. Since most players aren't TAG's, it is safe to assume that most limp reraises aren't aces or kings. Anyway, I don't think that you can let the SB/BB draw this cheaply in a big pot when you might have the best hand.

Brad

27offsooot · #3 03-16-2005, 12:52 AM

Of all the places to raise this hand, picking the river was the worst one. Raise the flop, take it from there. And no, limp-reraises don't usually mean AA/KK, i've seen a lot of crap limp-reraises lately, especially when the pots become multi-way, people suddenly think limp-reraising with smallish pp and suited connectors is a good idea.

mr pink · #4 03-16-2005, 12:55 AM

only problem i have is with the river. i don't think you have much chance of moving him off of AA or KK after you just call the flop/turn and then raise a rivered trey.

i would probably have just called, and i don't think i would have called the river 3-bet either. especially after UTG called the 2 cold that was supposed to move him off his AA or KK... and then you get popped again, there is no way you're good there imo.

edit: tough hand btw.

Nice_Guy · #5 03-16-2005, 12:56 AM

I'm wondering what your reasoning is for not raising the flop or turn? If he doesn't have AA or KK you're letting everyone else along for cheap. Right?

In my experience I've seen all kinds of junk limp-raised from EP.

mr pink · #6 03-16-2005, 12:56 AM

shill is right.

27offsooot · #7 03-16-2005, 12:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
shill is right.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why is waiting until the turn to raise better than raising the flop?

adamstewart · #8 03-16-2005, 12:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Of all the places to raise this hand, picking the river was the worst one. Raise the flop, take it from there. And no, limp-reraises don't usually mean AA/KK, i've seen a lot of crap limp-reraises lately, especially when the pots become multi-way, people suddenly think limp-reraising with smallish pp and suited connectors is a good idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see no reason to raise the flop.

Actually, I think raising the flop is a very, very, bad play.

In all seriousness, DO YOU SEE WHY?

Adam

mr pink · #9 03-16-2005, 01:00 AM

cause you'd be giving the blinds like 29 to 2 if i counted right, they're not going anywhere with the pot that big. waiting to the turn to raise might get you some folds whereas raising the flop doesn't.

27offsooot · #10 03-16-2005, 01:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of all the places to raise this hand, picking the river was the worst one. Raise the flop, take it from there. And no, limp-reraises don't usually mean AA/KK, i've seen a lot of crap limp-reraises lately, especially when the pots become multi-way, people suddenly think limp-reraising with smallish pp and suited connectors is a good idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see no reason to raise the flop.

Actually, I think raising the flop is a very, very, bad play.

In all seriousness, DO YOU SEE WHY?

Adam

[/ QUOTE ]

No I don't. Elaborate.