competing with a shark for a fish while wearing a dress

[DiamondDave]

B&M 30/60 featuring a couple of loose and very aggressive players.

Hand #1: The blinds are both loose, passive, and straightforward. The chip-spewing maniac has limped in. This reeks of medium and offsuit. A 2+2er who is neither a poseur nor a full-time pro raises in the CO. I don't think he has less than AJo/ATs/KQo/KJs/JTs/88. I'm on the button with Js9s and call anyway. The blinds call. Five of us see a flop of 988 mixed suits. Everyone checks to me. I bet. The big blind calls, the preflop raiser calls. Turn is a 4. They check to me. I bet intending to fold to a checkraise from either player. Only the BB calls. The river is a 2. He checks, and I check. He shows JcTc and MHIG.

Hand #2: In this hand, the big blind is loose, tenacious, tricky, aggressive, and up five racks. The maniac from the previous hand opens for a raise from early position. This could be something like 42s, 69s, or Q9o. It's folded to the 2+2er on my right who makes it three bets cold to the rest of the field. I put him on AJo/ATs/KQs/77 or better. I have AcKc and flat call (the cap is 4 bets). The big blind calls, as does the opener. Four of us see a flop of KQ3 rainbow, no clubs. It is checked to the 2+2er on my right who bets. We all call. The turn is the 8d. Everyone checks to me. I bet, and everyone calls. The turn is the 5d, completing the backdoor flush. We all check. The BB shows Ah5h for a rivered pair. The maniac shows JJ. The 2+2er mucks, and MHIG.

I think my play was questionable preflop in Hand #1, on the flop in Hand #2, and on the river in both hands. Comments appreciated.

[I.Rowboat]

My .02 cents, so take it for what it's worth:

Hand #1: There are two questions here: one, is the hand playable for two bets behind this raiser, and two, given the flop and the action, should you bet the river?

As you were able to see after the hand, you were dominated and sucked out on the flop. If this is a player whose raises you respect, why gamble with J9s, espcially with a maniac in the pot, and no certainty that the blinds will call. I see nothing wrong in folding here, although a few more callers between the limper and the raiser, coupled with being on the button, makes this a much better gamble. as it was, I feel the call was pretty thin.

The play of the hand was pretty standard, with the only remaining question being whether to bet the river or check behind. I don't think your check is too bad, as usually a river bet will only be called by a hand that may have you beat (TT, for example). Your kicker is pretty thin, so a value bet would require a good read on your opponent.

Hand #2: I see nothing wrong with capping this before the flop, but calling is OK as long as you plan on taking the leads once you hit your hand. Once you hit the flop, I think you HAVE to raise it. You have to confront the gutshot draws with a double bet. TPTK with two face cards is a very vulnerable holding against three other players who have called three bets. Not raising here is just asking to have your hand cracked.

As I said, my .02 cents, so take it for what it's worth.

[TStoneMBD]

hand 1: you have a thin value bet here, but against most players it is a value bet. reads are important here.

hand 2: definitely cap this preflop. there is no reason to let anybody else into the pot. take control of the hand and scare the bejesus out of the 2plus2er. if you cap preflop, its very likely that the flop will be checked to you, you bet, maniac calls and the 2plus2er folds. or, the maniac leads the flop, 2plus2er folds and you see a showdown however you see fit. you were fortunate to catch your flop, but you leave yourself vulnerable when you miss. if you raise preflop you put yourself in the drivers seat.

[haakee]

Hand #1: I would broaden the range of the 2+2er's hands. Maniac limps with crap, from the CO I'm popping it with a lot of hands here, including KT, 66, K9s. Despite that I'd still muck J9s in your spot. It's a fine hand for 1 bet, but I don't like paying $60 to see the flop here, even with position. Others may disagree.

Hand #2: Bet the river. Did you call Hand 2 on the flop hoping to pop it on the turn?

[DiamondDave]

I honestly thought a flop raise wouldn't have knocked anybody out in Hand #2.

I was tentatively planning to consider raising the turn. I definitely would not have done so if a Q fell. I may not have raised on a J or T, either. Confidence oozing from the 2+2er would definitely have caused me to hold my fire (either he was drawing to between two and four outs and would play his hand correctly or he had me drawing dead and would have reraised for sure).

Then again, I might not have raised on a safe turn card even if I had been given the opportunity to do so. Given my reads on the BB (who had recently called three bets cold in the BB without looking at his cards) and the maniac (who had recently 3bet a tight UTG raiser next-to-act with 42s), I actually didn't mind that everyone put in one bet apiece on the turn. I didn't fear overcards but had no other draws and was committed to a showdown against opponents who could have had anything and may not have folded a 5-outer even if confronted with a raise on the turn. Not my favorite spot to escalate a confrontation with one strong and two loose/tricky opponents.

[DiamondDave]

"Maniac limps with crap, from the CO I'm popping it with a lot of hands here, including KT, 66, K9s."

Hmmm. I pretty much assumed that the 2+2er did not have a 9 in his hand and was much, much less likely to hold a J than an A or a K. If he'd raise K9s/A9s/KJo my call with J9s was really bad.

[youngin20]

I know thats a tough bet to make on the river in hand number 2, but you really should make it. thats 4bbs you missed (ok maybe not, but at least one or two). I probably wouldnt bet there, but thats because I still frequent the dress shop. Gotta squeeze all the value you can out of this hand.

[TStoneMBD]

your call is borderline. very borderline. what the limpers in the hand are limping with is more important than what the twoplustwoer is raising with. also, how bad are the other players postflop? i can see making this call, but again its very borderline. another problem with your hand here is that youre in bad position relative to the preflop raiser with this type of holding. yes if you flop a pair of jacks you can thin the field by raising his bet, but when you flop a draw or a made hand youre going to have trouble extracting equity.

btw, definite value bet on tbe AK

[Fianchetto]

Hand#1
I don’t like the preflop call for two cold. You don’t know that it will be more than 3-way, and I don’t think 2 opponents is enough come in with J9s for 2 bets. I’d want more like 5-6 way action. Other than that I think you played it well.

Oh wait, the river….sometimes I will value bet that. Depends on the opponent though, against calling station types you have a value bet, against a tight aggressive I don’t think you’ll be called by a worse hand.


Hand#2
I like a cap preflop, you probably have the best hand, and are likely to get it checked to you on the flop where you can evaluate your options. Loose guy is not going away and you punish him for opening with garbage.

Okay, so you smooth called preflop, now you can raise a favorable flop. Hmm….you just called, I don’t get it, you were planning to raise the turn?

Edit: Knocking people out with a flop raise is a bonus, but I’m raising for value and expecting them to pay me off with worse hands. Also charging double to the guys who want to stick around with J9, AT, whatever gutshot.

River is a definite bet.


Was this the Oaks?