An Instructive Hand

jdp · #1 03-12-2005, 07:56 PM

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (9 handed)

Analyzing some hands with PT and was wondering how others would play this to lose the least. Amateur (not me) in MP has AhQc and Villain on Button has 44 . On the flop Amateur makes TPTK and Villain makes 444. Amateur check-raises with his AQ which I think is a mistake - I'd bet about $100 on the flop to see what action I get and try to thin the field, esp. with the flush draw out there. I'm always wary of someone having trips in this sort of situation too. How would others play it to try and lose the least in this sort of situation? Of course it's made worse by hitting the Ace on the turn, which makes it harder for Amateur to get away from.

After the raise on the Turn I'd immediately be thinking I must be against Trips (not Amateur you'll notice). At most I'd make a reluctant call, or maybe fold depending on my opponent. Any other opinions on this?

converter

SB ($1822)
BB ($985)
UTG ($1957.62)
UTG+1 ($322.5)
MP1 ($1893.06)
MP2 ($1195)
MP3 :#A500AF(Amateur)/ ($1115.12)
CO ($1757.44)
Button :#A500AF(Villain)/ ($1937.88)

Preflop: SB posts a blind of $5.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $10, MP1 calls $10, 1 fold, MP3 :#A500AF(Amateur)/ raises to $30, 1 fold, Button :#A500AF(Villain)/ calls $30, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls $20, MP1 calls $20.

Flop: ($135) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Amateur checks, Villain bets $35, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Amateur raises to $100, Villain calls $65.

Turn: ($335) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Amateur bets $175, Villain raises to $350, Amateur raises to $700, Villain raises to $1050, Amateur calls $285.12 (All-In).

River: ($2370.12) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $2370.12

Results in white below: 
Amateur has Ah Qc (two pair, aces and queens).
Villain has 4h 4s (three of a kind, fours).
Outcome: Villain wins $2370.12.

Ulysses · #2 03-12-2005, 08:00 PM

I'd go broke on this hand against most players.

Kaz The Original · #3 03-12-2005, 08:16 PM

I hope I'm not the only one amused by the turn betting. Unless villian is a rock it's not very easy to get away from this one. I don't mind going break here with top two where pair hands (and I include 3 of a kind in "pair hands") are the nuts.

jdp · #4 03-12-2005, 08:35 PM

The problem is by raising your turn bet he's showing great strength. He called the check-raise on the flop, which makes you think he should have at least a queen, or possibly biding his time with trips (as he was). When the Ace hits on the turn and he raises, what could he have? Now I would rule out the Queen and assume trips, maybe even a slow-played QQ or AA. Unless you know he's a wild player, I think calling may be a long-run loser here...

soah · #5 03-12-2005, 08:44 PM

I think it's a little bit pointless to even bother debating the turn play, since the hand was botched so much on the previous streets.

freemoney · #6 03-12-2005, 08:45 PM

there are enough hands that he will beat and the amount of money he needs to put in the pot to start thinking he might be behind is too great to fold. I hate the flop play but that doesnt change the fact that with an average stack and no straight or flush on board when you make top 2 you will usually lose your stack.

Kaz The Original · #7 03-12-2005, 10:11 PM

Opponent could easily have AK [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Prevaricator · #8 03-12-2005, 10:13 PM

Its more likely that its just Axd than the AKd specifically, given the preflop action

jdp · #9 03-12-2005, 10:29 PM

I think the turn is very important as after Amateur is raised, he must now basically decide whether he is prepared to throw in another $800 on top of the $300 he has already committed to the pot in the hope he is in front. If it is reasonable to deduce that he is against trips then he can save a large amount of money. If his opponent has Adxd and misses, then if he doesn't bluff the river, he loses no more money, whereas in the case of trips or hitting his flush, he breaks Amateur.
Another point is that the majority of players will rarely commit large amounts to the pot unless they have the nuts or close to.

soah · #10 03-12-2005, 11:05 PM

But if he had not played preflop and flop like a complete donkey, we wouldn't even be in this situation on the turn. That's why I think it's pointless to discuss. Why waste time analyzing situations that one shouldn't even be in?