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#1
03-12-2005, 03:05 PM
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More Waiting For The Turn To Raise
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $3. UTG posts a blind of $4. Hero posts a blind of $3. UTG (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero (poster) checks, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO folds, SB folds. Flop: (12.33 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls. Turn: (10.16 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG folds, MP2 calls. River: (16.16 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> BB checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP2 calls. Final Pot: 19.16 BB 
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#2
03-12-2005, 03:10 PM
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Re: More Waiting For The Turn To Raise
I think it's close, and I think both three-betting the flop and your line are probably fine. The pot is pretty damn big on the flop though, so I think this was a good application of waiting until the turn.
Nice hand.
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#3
03-12-2005, 03:14 PM
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Re: More Waiting For The Turn To Raise
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's close, and I think both three-betting the flop and your line are probably fine. The pot is pretty damn big on the flop though, so I think this was a good application of waiting until the turn. Nice hand. [/ QUOTE ] I figured they were close too. What tipped the balance for me was the idea that flop limpers were more likely to call 2 more warm SB's than 2 BB's cold on the turn. I did have to tank for a few seconds however.
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#4
03-12-2005, 03:33 PM
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Re: More Waiting For The Turn To Raise
Usually when someone posts a "wait until the turn" hand, there are a barrage of posts that say how the concept was misapplied in that particular instance. (Usually because it was.) I'm interested to see if that happens here.
I haven't looked at this hand with a microscope yet, but I think you played it like a champ.
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#5
03-12-2005, 03:53 PM
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Re: More Waiting For The Turn To Raise
It seens right on. Just some comments that others will hopefully add to or correct me on: You should wait until the turn when 1) your hand is probably best now but very vulnerable, and 2) you're sure that someone will bet out on the turn, and 3)You can't possibly chase anyone out on the flop. This hand seems to satisfy all three criteria.
If a scare club hits on the turn, are you raising MP2 if he still has the lead?
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#6
03-12-2005, 04:11 PM
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Re: More Waiting For The Turn To Raise
[ QUOTE ]
If a scare club hits on the turn, are you raising MP2 if he still has the lead? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. But if my turn rasie gets a bunch of callers, I'll check the river & show down for free.
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#7
03-12-2005, 04:12 PM
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Re: More Waiting For The Turn To Raise
I don't know...
On one hand, the call-2-cold on the flop, raise the turn, really really looks like a monster to a thinking player. On the whole though, I think I like it. If you weren't in position on the flop (i.e. if the CO and button and come along to see the flop), I'd certainly raise.
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#8
03-12-2005, 04:16 PM
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Re: More Waiting For The Turn To Raise
[ QUOTE ]
On one hand, the call-2-cold on the flop, raise the turn, really really looks like a monster to a thinking player. [/ QUOTE ] Good! Then a thinking player will fold, and the donkys will call when they should fold. Best of both worlds.
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#9
03-12-2005, 04:16 PM
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Re: More Waiting For The Turn To Raise
[ QUOTE ]
On one hand, the call-2-cold on the flop, raise the turn, really really looks like a monster to a thinking player. [/ QUOTE ] That's okay. A low 2 pair is probably the best hand but it is very vulerable. There are many hidden outs and your hand is easily counterfeited. If players fold without knowing that they actually could have as many as 8-11 outs, that's great for you.
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#10
03-12-2005, 04:29 PM
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Re: More Waiting For The Turn To Raise
This looks like a nice time to make this move. The club draw is out there with possible gutshot straights. Any 4 will give any overpair the pot - 4 outs. A 7 or 3 could fill someones gutshot draw - 8 outs. Any club can flush - 9 outs. Any over pair has 2 outs to trips. Mabye - 4 there. Mabye 23 cards that can beat you. Some of those could be duplicates and nobody might have the gutshot. Collectivelty they could have alot of outs against you.
Waiting until the turn allows you to charge the max/ give the worst odds to these sorry draws. Standard Disclaimer: I do not have any idea what I am talking about.
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