The Stop & Go (No Content)

[GrunchCan]

I've been doing a lot of digging in the archives today, looking for information about the stop & go. I think its a play that my understanding is very weak on. But I haven't really found any gems that clarify the play for me. Just a lot of hands where a stop & go took place, but nobody ever really stopped and talked about the stop & go.

Anybody have any links to good discussions about the stop & go? I'm looking for both sides - when I should do it, and how I should react when its done to me.

Anybody willing to discuss the stop & go right here in this thread?

Thanks.

[QTip]

I was just thinking of this tonight as well. I pulled a stop n go on someone just to see where they were at. I have TP with a small kicker and 2 flush was on the board. They raised my bet. I just called and waited for the non flush card to fall to go again. He raised again, so I figured a FF wasn't what he had and let it go.

Others may not like this, but it was the thought I had at the time.

Let me know if you find something.

Thanks.

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
I was just thinking of this tonight as well. I pulled a stop n go on someone just to see where they were at. I have TP with a small kicker and 2 flush was on the board. They raised my bet. I just called and waited for the non flush card to fall to go again. He raised again, so I figured a FF wasn't what he had and let it go.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, I used it exactly that way today also. I'm not familiar with how it's supposed to be used, but I liked it that time. I was actually planning on posting that hand up.

[RacersEdge]

did you see this thread?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...mp;sb=5&o=

[Bob T.]

I think the reason that it doesn't get discussed, is that it is a play, that doesn't have a real place in internet poker. It might be a more useful play in live poker, where the game is played a little bit more passively.

Most of the situations where I might use it, if I want bet the turn, I will go ahead and three bet the flop. If I threebet, and get raised again, and then the turn is checked through, I charged my opponent the same as if I stopngoed. If I threebet, and he doesn't reraise, and I bet the turn, I charged him an extra sb to see the river. If I expect that my opponent is going to bet the turn, I will call the flop, and checkraise the turn.

But, in the live poker world, it seems that there are a lot more players willing to take the free card if they have the chance, or will more likely check a scary turn card through. It almost seems like foiling a checkraise is a skill that live players seem to like to exhibit, even if they miss out on a lot of value by checking on the turn or river. Because of that, a stopngo play might have more application there.

[bobbyi]

There are two ways that I use the stop and go. (In both cases I am assuming that you are heads up.) The first is if you have a marginal made hand and you feel that your opponent is probably raising with either a draw or a made hand and if he has a made hand it is probably better than yours. It's possible that in this case between the chance of him being ahead of you now and the chance of his draw getting there, you aren't winning often enough to want to three-bet the flop for value. So instead, you call and wait to see if the draw gets there. If it doesn't, you bet again to deny a free card because now your chance of winning the hand has went up. If you get raised again, you figure that your opponent really does have a made hand better than yours and you fold, saving money compared to reraising the flop and having him then call you down and beat you. If the draw gets there, you check and fold the turn since now it is very unlikely that you are ahead and are happy that you saved a bet by not reraising the flop. Note that this requires that you are against someone who won't semibluff raise twice.

The second use of the stop and go is when you have a monster. If you are against an aggressive player, you might believe that if you stop and go, he will raise you again sensing weakness and you can three-bet the turn, getting in more money than if you reraise the flop and lead the turn (in which case he'll just call) or if you call and then check-raise the turn (especially if there is some chance that you have misread the situation and he is going to check behind). This one also requires knowing the opponent pretty well and really only works agaisnt the right kind of player. I think you would want to have a good physical read here as well that he really does have a strong enough hand to raise again.

Note that if you use the stop and go in both of these situations, your play is balanced. When you stop and go, your opponent doesn't know whether you have a mediocre hand that is denying a free card or a monster that is looking for action.

[zephed56]

Great post, thanks man. You should submit something to the internet magazine.

[GrunchCan]

This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.

Anyone else?

[Elizabeth]

Good post! A couple corollaries to this for practical play:

1. Don't use the stop-n-go in blind steal types of situations where you are unlikely to have a monster. The play is so obviously a middle pair or marginal hand. On the other side, if you experience the stop-n-go in this situation, you have a safer value bet.

2. With unsophisticated players, the stop-n-go is usually a transparent play. If the board is not dangerous, the stop-n-go is more likely a weak hand. If the hand is multiway, the stop-n-go is most likely a top pair or made hand.

My advice is to be careful about using the stop-n-go while intending to fold to a raise. In my experience, the stop-n-go almost incites your opponent to raise. Unsophisticated opponents see it as weak; they don't see themselves being trapped.

[LoaferGee12]

Excellent post, thanks.