20-40 hand

Ice · #1 03-11-2005, 05:36 PM

Hi All

Here's a hand from my local 20-40 game that i thought might be interesting. There are no pro's in the game but there are three solid players with me being one of them. The rest are averge players at best. The two players involved in this hand were average players.

I'm in the bb and look down and see i have KsKh. I raise and get 4 callers so we go to the flop with 10sb in the pot.The flop comes 9c 10c Jd. I check the MP bets the CO calls i call and the remaining players muck.

The turn is 9c 10c Jd 4h. I check the MP bets the CO calls and now i checkraise. The MP calls and the CO calls. The river is 9c 10c Jd 4h 5s. I bet the MP calls and the Co mucks. MHIG.

How many of you would have waited until the turn to raise and how many of you would have just went ahead and raised the flop? I waited until the turn for a safe card and when i got it i raised.Did i play it right? Ice

URMeowed · #2 03-11-2005, 05:43 PM

You need to reread HPFAP as to what hands you slowplay and what hands you check raise. Let's just say JT9 is not the best flop to slowplay KK on.

Meow.

Ice · #3 03-11-2005, 05:52 PM

Thats not a slowplay. That flop has just about every draw imaginable so i'm waiting until the turn where if a good card comes off i can charge the draws quite a bit of money. Even though i'm giving up some flop equity isn't my expectation better? If the club or 8 comes or the board pairs i am going to be very sorry i raised the flop.Ice

URMeowed · #4 03-11-2005, 06:00 PM

And you'll be even more sorry when you get three bet on the turn. You are right, that flop has just about every draw imaginable. So why did you check the flop after raising it pre? You aren't charging the draws more money if they are already there.

Meow.

Ice · #5 03-11-2005, 07:03 PM

But i'm charging them more money if there NOT there.In this case they were not there and yes i could have been three bet. I can get three bet on the flop,too. The question s/b is my EXPECTATION greater if i wait unit the turn to charge the draws double if there not there or just bet out the flop.Let's see if we get some other feedback and find out if i'm all wet.Ice

URMeowed · #6 03-11-2005, 07:07 PM

Hindsight is 20/20. You raised preflop. By check calling the flop, you are in essence slowplaying. KK on a JT9 flop is not a big flop to slowplay. This is also not the kind of flop you want to be giving free cards on. Just my cat logic.

Meow.

JohnnyHumongous · #7 03-11-2005, 09:27 PM

what if it gets checked through on the turn? that's the main problem with this line the way I see it.

TStoneMBD · #8 03-12-2005, 09:22 AM

you seem to want to justify your play on this hand, so why post it? either way, check-raising the turn is really dangerous. you should have just raised the flop. quite frankly, betting is appropriate on this flop but checkraising is reasonable every now and then. checking the turn is just suicide.

Ice · #9 03-12-2005, 10:21 AM

The replies have been very interesting.Apparently no-one agrees with the flop check and especially the checkraise on the turn.At 20-40 i have used this play on the turn quite a bit and very successfully. It's is very very rare that in my game if it is getting check-called to the bettor he will not bet the turn. This is not an exact number but at least 80-85% the time the turn will get bet.

I thought when you posted a hand the idea was to learn from your mistakes. I was giving the reasons why i played the hand the way i did and maybe find out where my reasoning was flawed or not. Thanks for the responses. Ice

sean c · #10 03-12-2005, 11:06 AM

Ice I think the problem with this play is your out of position your line is best if you r last to act not first. You want to bet this flop and hope someone raises and helps you protect your hand. I can't see one reason not to lead this turn on such a draw heavy board.