overlay and pot odds????

[mike1270]

hi

i am new to poker and am not sure how much overlay is enough to not fold a drawing hand. for example i have gutshot draw to the nuts and the pot is laying me 10.5-1. i believe this is the breakeven odds for this situation. if i am up against may players there will be plenty of extra bets to collect on the river(overlay) if my card comes--right?? but if there is only one other player aren't i essentialy making a breakeven bet?? i don't really want to make even money bets right?? --because i lose to the rake and only breakeven in the long run!!
now if i am drawing to a gut shot straight that isn't the nuts because there are 3 to a flush on the board shouldn't i be looking for better than 10.5-1 to bet/call??
also--if i bet/call very marginal situations(slightly better than breakeven) in theory i should show a profit over the long run but have a greater varience in my chip stack??
if i wait for better situations(more overlay) i will win less but have less variance in my chip stack--right??
so how much overlay is enough in these drawing hands??

[k_squared]

you seem to have answered your own question! Enough is enough to pay you off when the rake is taken out. If you are getting the odds to play a hand then you should play it. You only need a significant overlay when you are using implied odds to justify your call. Also, it is easier to just count the pot with the rake taken out and use that as your count of how much money is in the pot.

With weaker hands you need more overlay... with stronger ones you need less...

good luck
-k_squared

[mike1270]

thanks for the reply but i don't think i answered my own Ques. i will try to make it clearer.

ex/ i am drawing with a gutshot straight that is not the nuts(10.5-1 break even). the pot less the rake is laying me 10.5-1 odds. i am against one player. this is a even money bet because i might still lose or tie. if i do make the best hand i will likley only win one extra big bet or no extra bets. in this situation do i make the call??

of course it would be different if i had a gutshot draw to the nuts vs many bettors with 10.5-1 pot odds. i am thinking this is a definte call right??

so if you only compare only pot odds to the odds of making your hand you are leaving out alot of variables. how do i figure the overlay needed in other situations?? i know there is no formula per say but i am looking for some ideas on this.

while i am at it i am reading SSH and there is a chart on page 30 giving the breakeven odds for the number of outs you have. for example 4 outs is 10.5-1 to breakeven. but i think that is with one card to came. your breakeven odds with two cards to come should be higher--right??. the book only makes a footnote of this. so how do you handle decision making on the flop?? if you use the chart in SSH it would have some overlay built in as the actual odds with two cards to come is greater and the implied odds should also be bigger as there are two betting rounds to go instead of one. so what is the best way to handle the flop decisions?? just use the chart on page 30 of SSH or do i need to buy another book and memorize an additional set of break even odds for the river?

thanks