flopped the flush and still uncomfortable

The Ram · #1 03-10-2005, 04:50 PM

any thoughts would be much appreciated on any street. i play a fair amount of NL but this hand was the first time i've felt very unsettled at all points.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (9 handed) converter

SB ($1056.9)
BB ($582)
UTG ($679.48)
UTG+1 ($348.57)
MP1 ($601)
MP2 ($570)
MP3 ($1804.8)
Confused ($1410.7)
Button ($504.8)

Preflop: Confused is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls $6, MP2 calls $6, MP3 calls $6, Confused calls $6, 1 fold, SB raises to $25, 1 fold, MP1 calls $19, MP2 calls $19, MP3 calls $19, Confused calls $19.

Flop: ($131) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, MP1 bets $65, MP2 raises to $225, MP3 calls $225, Confused calls $225, SB folds, MP1 folds.

Turn: ($871) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 bets $320 (All-In), MP3 calls $320, Confused calls $320.

River: ($1831) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
MP3 bets $500, Confused calls $500.

Final Pot: $2831

parttimepro · #2 03-10-2005, 05:26 PM

Did you cold-call the flop because you were afraid of a bigger flush, or because you wanted to let earlier players bluff more? I think raising here is key, because at least one of the MP players has a set, and you'll have to fold if the board pairs. Also, there are practically no cards that improve your hand. Maybe A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], but any 4, 6, 8, or [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] has to make you pretty nervous. I'd raise the turn for the same reason. Given the action so far, MP3 may have A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]X or a set.

The smallish bet into a dry side pot on the river makes me think he may have a flush. I'm not sure if it beats yours. There aren't a lot of spades left out there. He could have 9T, 79, AX. 75 and 53 are possible but not too likely. He probably puts you on a set that missed its boat. I like his bet, because it looks like either a value bet from an A-high flush or a blocking bet from a lower flush or a set. I think a call is right here.

I'm curious what others think. If you raise the flop and get reraised by the other deep stack, do you push, fold, or call? It's not obvious to me. Very read dependent, I suppose.

pdubz · #3 03-10-2005, 05:33 PM

This hand is honestly confusing... any reads?

Post-Oak · #4 03-10-2005, 06:16 PM

I would push all-in on the turn. If he has an A or K high flush, pay him off. I just don't think he had a flush given the way he has played the hand (smooth calling the relatively small turn all-in bet).

Of course he could have the straight flush.

Push all-in on the turn.

warlockjd · #5 03-10-2005, 08:35 PM

I like either raising the flop or the turn. I hate waiting until the river. Given your line, I call without much thought.

EDIT: calling an all on on the flop or turn too, that's the point of the raise.

jpg7n16 · #6 03-11-2005, 01:41 AM

well... IMHO... if you already called the MP2 who went all-in on the turn, the odds are you could be beat out there by MP2 and the other is hoping you busted your flush (maybe because he did too). The odds that all 3 of you would have pocket spades are very low. Besides MP1 probably had to have at least one spade when making his bet, seeing the very real possibility of a flush would beat a straight he might have (the raise took away his odds for the best). But MP2's raise (= about 2xPot)means he would probably have the A or K. Probably w/ suited lower, maybe not. But I would place it on him, especially when he went all in at the turn. Meaning that you have to just beat MP3 for his $500 on the river. I would push on the end to call him out and try for his $500 right there. (You'd only have 300ish left to just call, it's worth it to call him out) Winning against a busted 4-flush draw by MP2 would just be an added bonus.

The only problem I have is, what does he gain by betting on the river? Maybe he'd get you to drop the low flush he think you have to give him a better shot with his mid against the MP2? That's the only thing I'm slightly confused about.

fsuplayer · #7 03-11-2005, 02:07 AM

push flop.

The Ram · #8 03-11-2005, 02:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
push flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

if that's really the line you'd take, you're going to need to explain it, because that seems absurd to me given that i'm 240BB deep when the action gets to me on the flop.
pushing seems a little excessive (insane?) with that much money behind...

turnipmonster · #9 03-11-2005, 02:38 AM

it's actually not that much more than a pot sized raise.

fsuplayer · #10 03-11-2005, 02:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
push flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

if that's really the line you'd take, you're going to need to explain it, because that seems absurd to me given that i'm 240BB deep when the action gets to me on the flop.
pushing seems a little excessive (insane?) with that much money behind...

[/ QUOTE ]

of your two opponents, the deepest has less than 100BB's left, does a push seem absurd now?

you need to raise this flop.