Blocking Bets- post flop play

NegativeEV · #1 03-08-2005, 02:56 PM

$33 SnG

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter

MP1 (t655)
MP2 (t765)
MP3 (t1050)
CO (t1110)
Button (t800)
Hero (t1030)
BB (t755)
UTG (t695)
UTG+1 (t1140)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls t30, MP2 calls t30, MP3 calls t30, CO calls t30, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t180) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets t60, MP3 calls t60, CO folds, Hero calls t60, BB folds, MP1 folds.

Turn: (t360) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets t75, MP2 calls t75, MP3 folds.

River: (t510) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t100, MP2 calls t100.

Final Pot: t710

 YUCK? Lemme know.

Results in white below: 
MP2 has Th Kc (one pair, kings).
Hero has Ks Jh (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins t710.

citanul · #2 03-08-2005, 03:02 PM

Just curious, what was your plan if you were raised on the turn or river?

citanul

stupidsucker · #3 03-08-2005, 03:06 PM

This is something I do often myself. If you check the turn, you are almost certain that the lead will bet again, and it will be a decent size bet you wont want to call...

BUT

If you bet small like that then you give your oppnent an opportunity to fold, and you disguise your hand a little. If he comes ovber the top then its time to get out, but a flat call and a safe river means another decent bet can be made.

Phil Van Sexton · #4 03-08-2005, 03:08 PM

I'm not liking it. KJ is likely the best hand. If he had a better hand than KJ, he would raise you, so you aren't really blocking anything. With so many opponents and such a weak flop bet, I'd probably just call him down.

With a blocking bet, you want your opponent to just call even if he has a better hand. It might make more sense if you had QJ. In that case, he'd call you down with KT and you'd lose less. (I'm not recommending playing QJ like this.)

Scuba Chuck · #5 03-08-2005, 03:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not liking it. KJ is likely the best hand. If he had a better hand than KJ, he would raise you, so you aren't really blocking anything. With so many opponents and such a weak flop bet, I'd probably just call him down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your thought that KJ is probably the best hand, but I don't think calling him down, letting him get a chance to hit a second pair makes sense. I think betting the turn (as hero did), or check raising makes a little more sense. CR.ing probably will cost Hero the same, in terms of chips as calling down, but might win him the pot right there.

NegativeEV · #6 03-08-2005, 03:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not liking it. KJ is likely the best hand. If he had a better hand than KJ, he would raise you, so you aren't really blocking anything. With so many opponents and such a weak flop bet, I'd probably just call him down.

With a blocking bet, you want your opponent to just call even if he has a better hand. It might make more sense if you had QJ. In that case, he'd call you down with KT and you'd lose less. (I'm not recommending playing QJ like this.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe my terminology is wrong. I'm looking for a cheap showdown here. On the turn I expect that if I check I will be facing a bet size that I can not call. I'm trying to "block" a meaningful bet from villian and control the pot on the turn and river.

I think I have the best hand, but I can't call a meaningful bet if I check. Do you expect villian's bets to be of a size you can call here? Maybe so, I'm interested in what you've seen.

NegativeEV · #7 03-08-2005, 03:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just curious, what was your plan if you were raised on the turn or river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would fold to a meaningful raise.

Scuba Chuck · #8 03-08-2005, 03:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just curious, what was your plan if you were raised on the turn or river?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would fold to a meaningful raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why I think this is the best play. But I get your point, you're expecting a 2/3 pot sized raise or more by villain on the turn. You have TP2k (which is as good as TPTK in this scenario, IMO). Why is it that you would not play this hand as if you had TPTK on the turn?

NegativeEV · #9 03-08-2005, 03:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You have TP2k (which is as good as TPTK in this scenario, IMO). Why is it that you would not play this hand as if you had TPTK on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

It I had TPTK and six people had seen the flop and three were still in at the turn with this board, I would see 2Pair as a strong possibility and I would play this hand the same way. I want to prevent a worse hand from moving me off this pot (blocking), but I want a better hand to identify itself so I can fold.

FWIW, If I had TPTK on this board there would not have been 6 people to the flop [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

nokona13 · #10 03-08-2005, 04:31 PM

I've been kinda tilty recently, so maybe I'm swinging back to weak-tight. But couldn't villain play 55 or KQ the same way on this board, but with a raise on the river? Are you willing to assume that villain would try to build a bigger pot with a raise on the turn? Or are you just willing to be beat by either of those two hands cause you beat anything else that could be played this way?