Phil vs. Jesus-- Greatest TV hand ever??

oaktoon · #1 03-08-2005, 01:41 AM

I was one of the 100 or so folks privileged to watch the Hellmuth-Ferguson best 2 of 3 final late last night at the Nugget. I'm sure there is a separate thread about this match-- and particularly the extraordinary hand that turned the second game in Chris' favor, but I have to say that in many many years of watching all kinds of sporting events in person-- including Game Six of the 1975 World Series-- this was right up there in terms of drama and excitement.

The most fascinating thing about that hand was the way Ferguson came to his ultimate decision to call-- Phil, leading 1-0 and thus able to play loose and try to fill out a gutshot straight, had a pretty easy time of it, but Chris, sitting on two pair and trying to regain the advantage without risking all, had an excruciating decision to make as the hand built. When Phil went over the top on the turn, Chris said later he figured he had hit the straight. Why then did he still gamble??

Well to begin with from Chris' perspective there was probably as much chance that Phil was holding 6-3 as A-3, and a 3 in 4 shot that even if Phil held an ace it wouldn't be a heart, thus making Chris' 9 of hearts the winning flush hand in case a heart came on the river. So as far as he knew he had 13 outs, not 4. Second there was a chance that Phil was bluffing given the game situation. Third he was plenty pot committed-- in fact to lay it down would have left him fairly crippled for the rest of the way.

The other thing about the match that probably isnt getting the attention is the way Phil came back from the dead in Game Three. To begin with he clearly tried to shake up the mood and direction the table was taking as Chris kept firing away at him and grinding him down by starting to joke with Gus Hansen about not being able to play Gus' hands-- I don't think it unnerved Chris but he did seem a bit put off by the hijinx at one point. Second his decision to go all in with Ax vs. Chris' KQ proved to be the beginning of the comeback. When he followed that up with an allin move on AQ with Chris holding AJ the comeback was complete. I think each player played those two pre-flop calls right-- luck ultimately turned out to be on Phil's side.

And it was a nice gesture for him to buy us all champagne-- including Chris, who received one of the first glasses-- it was a truly memorable three or four hours.

SoftcoreRevolt · #2 03-08-2005, 01:49 AM

It can't be the greatest hand ever, because the greatest hand ever will be when Christ himself returns to take on Phil Hellmuth, only to be defeated by Phil after agreeing to remove all luck from poker for their match up.

FrankLu99 · #3 03-08-2005, 02:34 AM

and i dont even like hot cakes

David Sklansky · #4 03-08-2005, 03:05 AM

"Phil, leading 1-0 and thus able to play loose and try to fill out a gutshot straight," ...

Excuse me? I see that you are new to this forum and thus can be forgiven for the statement above. Had your number of posts topped twenty and you were still writing something like that we would be sending out our twoplustwo goons to rough you up pretty good. Given your newbie status I ask other not only to elaborate but also to be gentle.

PuckNPoker · #5 03-08-2005, 03:11 AM

Dude you were "warned" just like Matador did to Seymour Annisman. Suh-weet.

trying2learn · #6 03-08-2005, 03:35 AM

i too was in attendance last night, and joined the boards to reply to this thread. (although i've read for a year or so now.)

anyway, i thought after the hand was over that it indeed was one of the most amazing hands i have ever watched, period. we were positioned directly behind chris, and during the 20 min or so break he came by to talk to the kid wearing his jacket (for screen time). i asked him if indeed he thought his heart (the 9) was live, as that's the only way i thought it was even remotely a justifiable call. he said he thought it was, as well as thinking that phil could be making a move with an overpair (which makes since due to phil's horrible play before the turn card).

i also want to say that all night it seemed to me that phil was in complete control of the match...there was one hand in particular where he beat ferguson into the pot preflop with ace queen off suit and indeed, jesus flipped over a/j.

i also thought the cloutier/ferguson match was great entertainment...what a cool format for a tournament.

anyway, good to be a part of the boards now....and take it from me....you all need to see this tourney when it airs in may...great stuff.

oaktoon · #7 03-08-2005, 04:00 AM

now, wait a minute David of the 6-2 full house on the board! Poor Johnny, but congratulations on a nice match.

I must have transgressed here but at the risk of further humiliation I felt at the time that given the format Phil could take a little more leeway in Game Two, since even a bad hand that put him behind in chips (or even knocked him out altogether) would not be fatal with a third game to be played. So as that hand built I could see the logic of Phil playing a draw against what became increasingly obvious must have been a two pair by Chris.

But if that is horrendous logic then I stand corrected. I know hands like this happen all the time but I am always struck by the hand that is only possible by one, and only one, turn card followed by a two or four outer. The way that hand unfolded was a 1 in 495 shot after the flop-- only the 4 of hearts followed by a 9 or duece could have caused it.

And I disagree with the notion that Phil was in control-- I though Chris played very effective power poker in the third game and was basically undone by a race and a tough pre-flop situation.

tylerdurden · #8 03-08-2005, 12:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Had your number of posts topped twenty and you were still writing something like that we would be sending out our twoplustwo goons to rough you up pretty good.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do I join the goon squad? Do we get free 2+2 shirts as our uniform? I'm 6'5", 250lbs, I break kneecaps g00t!

lawfive · #9 03-11-2005, 10:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"Phil, leading 1-0 and thus able to play loose and try to fill out a gutshot straight," ...

Excuse me? I see that you are new to this forum and thus can be forgiven for the statement above. Had your number of posts topped twenty and you were still writing something like that we would be sending out our twoplustwo goons to rough you up pretty good. Given your newbie status I ask other not only to elaborate but also to be gentle.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let no one say that he does not welcome new members with open arms!

[img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

riffraff · #10 03-11-2005, 02:57 PM

Heads up, in the main event of 1990, Hans "Tuna" Lund and Mansour Matloubi got all their chips in the pot in one of the most dramatic hands ever. Tuna had A9 and Matloubi TT. The flop was 9xx, all of the money went in. The turn brought an Ace, the river a Ten. Was a huge swing of emotion for both players. Shortstacked, Tuna was unable to recover and ended up placing 2nd.

I'm sure some out there remember this one.