The "Loose Table" Rule

[Potowame]

From HOH page 196.

[ QUOTE ]


The "Loose Tabel" rule,however is a more complicated case. Let's say your table is loose because Gus Hanson and Daniel Negreanu are on your left, and Phil Ivey is on your right. Now you have a strong incentive to play tightly, because when you get involved in pots with marginal hands, these guys will outmaneuver you after the flop. But, suppose you'er at a table with three guys who think they are Gus, Daniel and Phil, but in reality they're Larry, Curley and Moe. Now its very important that you not be tight; instead you want to get involved in pots with them with some marginal hand. the reason is simple. Over the first few hours of the tournament, Larry, Curley and Moe are going to be losing thier money to stronger players at the table. Do you want to try to win the money now, while they still have thier hands on it, or win it late, when the good players have it? I vote for the former.



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These few paragraphs have been at the heart of some of the better post on here, Mainly the Accumlators Vs. TAGs. Since alot of what I play is low buy-in and, 9-10 starting tables I play are loose bad over aggresive players, I would think that this is telling me to loosen up alot. While on here you get alot of play only top hands the first hour.

I think I am giving up alot folding AQ, AJ, A10, KQ, KJ hands on the first hour to these loose bad over aggressive players. Lets discuss..

[woodguy]

I think it really depends on your starting stacks.

I hate early play at party because I can piss away a healthy portion of my stack if I'm too laggy, so I have tightened up somewhat at Party until I have 1500 or so then loosen the belt a little.

When I do this the most important thing in my mind is POSITION. I like 67s a lot, but its a bleeder in EP or MP.

[ QUOTE ]
AQ, AJ, A10, KQ, KJ


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These hands are a little too tricky sometimes with shallow stacks and even fish can get hands that dominate you.

I prefer my beloved 67s as I find online that Larry, Moe and Curley are more likely to overplay a missed AK or TPTK on drawheavy boards.

That being said I've had my AQ take chips from AT but I sure didn't feel good until showdown.

I prefer not having to hope I'm ahead, rather than *knowing it* most of the time.

Regards,
Woodguy

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
I prefer my beloved 67s as I find online that Larry, Moe and Curley are more likely to overplay a missed AK or TPTK on drawheavy boards.

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I like drawing hand like that or small pair versus bad loose players early. I don't want to play a dominated hand like KJo or ATo, but I might limp in late position with hands like that.

I have called raises multiway in late position with Axs. I am not going to argue this as everyone in the single table and large cash no-limit forums thinks I am wrong. However, I have a reason for doing this against bad loose players.

[docknet]

Hmm... Lately I have had my premium, high pocket pairs called (3-4xBB) and beaten by 62s, A6o. It gets frustrating. So I play tight in the beginning. The problem with this approach is that you often find yourself low on chips later in the tourny and having to take a few chances to catch up--which doesn't always work either.

Is it just me, or has the laggy play got even worse over the past few months on PP and PS?

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it just me, or has the laggy play got even worse over the past few months on PP and PS?


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You must be at my table a lot. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Seriously, more lags = better table, for me anyhow.

Regards,
Woodguy

[wegs the wegs]

Maybe I am seeing the paragraph a little bit different from everyone else, even Harrington himself.

What I am hearing is play loose aggressive early to take advantage of all the others playing loose aggressive. So in order to beat them play the same cards and the same style they do. Right? Am I the only one not making any sense of this?

I've played LAG in tournaments before and it seems to me that it just doesn't equal playing TAG. If you get monster hands early being TAG you will get paid off and be at a very nice stack. If you get cold cards you are garuanteed to survive for awhile. Loose play may get lucky once in awhile, but overall it leads to disaster.

Applying Harrington's theory is just playing like a fish in order to beat the fish.

[woodguy]

I agree with Harrington to a point.

You need a deep stack to splash around and online is generally not condusive to that.

You may start deep online, but the blinds more very quickly so I find that you can't open right up like you can deep stacked with slow blinds.

But if you are on a table with idiots you need to get in there with them, no question. (and in my case show them I'm a bigger idiot [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

You also have to be comfortable that you can outplay your opponenets post flop.

edit: This goes against the advice "play opposite of the table", but when the dead money is there, you need to make a move when you can, especially if you have position, because it will not be there for long.

Regards,
Woodguy

[PokrLikeItsProse]

If I have loose stupid players early on in a tournament, I can usually count on one of them to either double me up or suck out and send me home early. They're called dead money for a reason.

What are you hoping to do? Avoid outplaying bad players early on so that you can outplay better players who have you massively outchipped later in the tournament?

Sometimes, I'm happy isolating and getting my money all-in with AQ if I know that they will call me with AJ, KQ, KJ, A9 and a host of other inferior hands.

I've looked back at the times I make the final table. Sometimes, I do have to claw my way back from short-stacked push-or-fold mode. But, I do better when I have enough chips to push small stacks around once we get to the ante stage of the tournament. Generally, I want enough chips to feel that I have ammo left to rebuild with if I make a couple of loose possible coin-flip calls against desperate short stacked players who are likely to shove with Q7 suited.

[Potowame]

I have tryed to switch up from trny to trny, just trying to get to where I feel is the most comfortable style for me. I play at UB and Stars where you have alittle room to splash around.

I just have a hard time laying down AJs after I have seen the same player raise the pot 2-3 times every orbit and showing down Q10-Ax and other crap. I think this goes along with passing up small edges early in a trny. On the range of hands you have a small edge of equity, but most people fold here looking for a better spot.

of Course TAG really never puts you to alot of hard calls or laydowns. But you really have to depend on the cards to hit you pretty good early or a monster hold up during the 100-150 blind range.

[MLG]

There was a really good post about this in the STT a while ago. Strassa and Gigabet were talking about it, and the concensus was you need to gamble against these LAGs. Just because they are LAGs and bound to lose their chips does not mean they are going to lose them to you. So, you should take any edge to try and get those chips before somebody else does. The LAG might get all his chips in way behind later, but there is no guarentee that you will be the one on the receiving end of the boon.