Correct or incorrect free card?

na4bart · #1 03-05-2005, 10:43 PM

First round of play in new 20/40 game. No reads, but seems to be the usual collection of loose players. Joint is busy as tournaments are in progress.

I have A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the CO and raise a MP limper. All fold to BB who completes. 3 to the flop of

A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8c

BB checks as does the MP and I bet with BB calling and MP folding. I figure if BB has an ace I'm in trouble.

Turn is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] giving me a few more outs and maybe saving me half the pot. BB checks and I check behind?? Good spot to allow a free card or very dumb?

Brom · #2 03-05-2005, 10:53 PM

I'd say this is not the time to give a free card.

The only way BB is ahead of you at this point is if he has and 8 in his hand (would he really call pf with any hand that contains an 8?). If he had AA, KK, or AK he would more than likely 3 bet you preflop so you can rule those hands out.

If he has an ace then you are freerolling him and should make him put his money in so that he either splits or loses. There is also a very slim chance that he would fold an Ace here and give up his half of the pot.

Even if he has an 8 in his hand and he check raises you, you still have up to 11 outs to beat his hand (1 less actually if your flush makes his boat).

There are only two reasons that I could see for checking behind on this turn. The first is that it may induce a King into betting and/or calling an extra bet on the river that he wouldn't have before. It could be disasterous though if he held a King in his hand and would have folded to a bet on the turn but then got a free card to fill up on the river. The second reason I might not bet here would be if the game was a raked game and you are nearly positive you would be splitting the pot. Pumping more bets into the pot might cause the rake level to increase and you would each lose more money. However, I think the freeroll nature of the hand cancels this out. Bet that turn IMO.

na4bart · #3 03-05-2005, 11:20 PM

In these nutty 20 games nowadays there is no way I can rule out an 8 in my opponets hand and I didn't want to run into any bulls**t raises if he did have an 8 and that we were most likely splitting the pot anyway. A T hit the river and I looked at QJo. So the free card did cost me the pot as I believe he would not have called a turn bet. But then again the 20 game I play in is so loose that turn calls for a gutshot are quite common. Probably more of a reason to bet...charge them for bad play. Anyway, I messed this one up.

TStoneMBD · #4 03-06-2005, 03:43 AM

no reason to check the turn. if the turn was a non-8 heart then checking makes alot of sense. however, worst case scneario is youre chopping and your flush draw equity warrants a bet. its far more likely that villain holds an ace, king or gutshot than he does an 8 or something big like AK.

3rdCheckRaise · #5 03-06-2005, 04:01 AM

Turn was perfect for you and should be an easy bet. BTW i am betting the river regardless of the next card.

Brom · #6 03-06-2005, 04:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Turn was perfect for you and should be an easy bet. BTW i am betting the river regardless of the next card.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about a King?

antifish225 · #7 03-07-2005, 05:29 PM

Bet the flop, call if you get check rasied, if you are check rasied, call the river no matter what - if he is on a draw you are better off making him pay to suck out, if he has an A you are likley chopping anyway (but you have a free roll to the heart), if he happens to have the 8 - well then I guess you lose, but if he is calling a raise with an 8 then in the long run you will get your money back and more.....jmho