Stupid! Stupid! Stupid?

stlip · #1 03-05-2005, 08:55 AM

Trying to add ag to my game, especially post flop where my 1.7-1.8 seems a bit below the consensus 2+2 ideal of 2 or higher. Unfortunately this time I pass up a simple showdown and leave myself a choice between dumb and dumber and I don't know which is which. Your thoughts appreciated. Table is nice and loose but none of them played this time, just MP1 who is solid.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 calls, 6 folds.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, Hero ???.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB

Nick Royale · #2 03-05-2005, 09:00 AM

Just call the river. Given the way you played you must fold.

TwoShedsJackson · #3 03-05-2005, 11:56 AM

Checkraise the turn and go for the free showdown if you dont like the river.

Isura · #4 03-05-2005, 12:22 PM

Does everyone bet this flop? You're likely against a made hand or a decent draw, I don't think you have much folding equity here and no chance of a free card out of position.

Entity · #5 03-05-2005, 12:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Does everyone bet this flop? You're likely against a made hand or a decent draw, I don't think you have much folding equity here and no chance of a free card out of position.

[/ QUOTE ]

A flop bet will win this pot far more often than one time in 5.

Rob

VBM · #6 03-05-2005, 01:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Trying to add ag to my game, especially post flop where my 1.7-1.8 seems a bit below the consensus 2+2 ideal of 2 or higher.

[/ QUOTE ]

This may be obvious to a lot of people, but don't make aggressive plays for the sake of making them to bump up an agg factor...it'll end up making you reckless & frustrated.

take your time & think about all your choices and when you bet, think in advance about how you'll react/interpret a raise/bet. don't shade your thinking w/ an "when in doubt, take the most aggressive possible route" approach.

and fwiw, i think i would've bet the turn.

gl,
--oj.

bozlax · #7 03-05-2005, 01:42 PM

If MP1 is "solid", what are you putting him on when he raises the flop? J8? It's something strong enough to raise the flop having only called PF (although he did cold-call). 77? 99? Slow-played AA/KK/QQ?

You've got a double-gutshot plus 2 overcards on the flop, so you've certainly got the odds to play the hand, even if he's got the set, right? Therefore, after the flop your play is more dependent on your read of MP1 than on padding a PokerTracker stat.

I'm mostly just thinking out loud (quietly), but depending on my read of MP1 I probably put him on ATo/ATs after the flop (hoping for the latter, since that kills a flush draw), and since you didn't show any aggression on the turn he thinks he's good with 2 pair on the river with an ace kicker.

But, I probably just call the river, anyway, because I'm a wuss.

(Disclaimer: I don't know squadoosh, and I'm just trying to learn by saying stupid things and getting bitch-slapped by ShillX and Entity.)

Nick Royale · #8 03-05-2005, 01:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Checkraise the turn and go for the free showdown if you dont like the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't like this at all. Buying a free showdown out of position? And since hero can't fold to a 3-bet I hate it even more.

stlip · #9 03-05-2005, 02:16 PM

I'm not making plays for my stats, but in reviewing hands after sessions I always seem to find one or two ill-advised ag plays while I'm not finding nearly as many situations where I wish I had bet out or raised. So I've got this curious situation where the stats seem to indicate there are more ag opportunities, but my hand by hand reviews aren't showing that.

Otherwise, this whole play went wrong from the start when none of the loose players joined in who normally had no trouble calling pre flop raises with nice uncoordinated cards.

JKetzer · #10 03-05-2005, 03:23 PM

Why the raise on the river? I don't see how you really stand to benefit. Even if he does think you just made the flush (or trips), he's still almost certainly going to call for one more bet. If he had a set (or two pair with a nine), then he just filled up and he hopes you did make the flush.

I don't mean to insult; I'm just curious what your motive was.