heads up on river, not sure if i'm ahead or behind..

dark_horse · #1 03-04-2005, 06:07 PM

i think they say if you're not sure wheather you're ahead or behind on the river heads up and you're first to act, check and call if bet at, giving him a chance to bluff. the guy calling my bets didn't give me any indication he was ahead of me, however i've seen people call down with TPTK without any aggression. that's where reads are important. a bet on the river here would be considered more stupid than value betting, yes?

BY the way, don't even *ask* why i completed from the SB this time. must have been a brain fart.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
5 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, CO calls.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: (4.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB

davelin · #2 03-04-2005, 06:09 PM

Fold. Pre. Flop.

dark_horse · #3 03-04-2005, 06:13 PM

i KNOW. didn't you read my disclaimer? eeh!

but it still brings up a good poker concept. the "check river if you're not sure if you're ahead or behind heads up in 1st position" theorem. read about it in cardplayer.. or something

maybe cardplayer articles don't apply to 1/2 [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

fluxrad · #4 03-04-2005, 06:13 PM

Ok. This time i'm sticking with "check/fold the flop", damnit!

davelin · #5 03-04-2005, 06:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i KNOW. didn't you read my disclaimer? eeh!

but it still brings up a good poker concept. the "check river if you're not sure if you're ahead or behind heads up in 1st position" theorem. read about it in cardplayer.. or something

maybe cardplayer articles don't apply to 1/2 [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, missed the disclaimer.

dark_horse · #6 03-04-2005, 06:17 PM

You're probably right, but this time I won the pot. He was calling me down with bottom pair. But he could have just as easily flopped top pair. Or middle pair with better kicker. whatever, next..

btspider · #7 03-04-2005, 06:37 PM

gotta bet-fold this river i think.. especially OOP. if he caught the J, he'll likely value bet when you check. if he has the Q, he should bet as well. a better 9 may fold rarely.. but worse hands will call which won't bet if you check.

SeeWillie · #8 03-04-2005, 06:51 PM

So Spidey, where do you draw the line on the river between betting because worse hands will call, and checking to induce a bluff (because worse hands will bet)? Is that a purely read-dependent decision?

btspider · #9 03-04-2005, 07:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So Spidey, where do you draw the line on the river between betting because worse hands will call, and checking to induce a bluff (because worse hands will bet)? Is that a purely read-dependent decision?

[/ QUOTE ]

this board doesn't seem like a great bluffing board. it hits tons of hands, but none of them look strong. the river wasn't a particularly obvious scare card, so your opponent can't really represent anything. i think if he bets, you are probably losing. if you are ahead, he's probably checking behind. so you lose the most, win the least by check-calling unless a check begins to induce a lot of bluffs.

if he was more aggro then he might bluff, but this guy is open limping in the CO.

dark_horse · #10 03-04-2005, 08:09 PM

excellent point about him open-limping in the CO. if i had that in mind at the river i might have bet. but still, you have to realize that most people who would bluff at the river, and many players at the 1/2 level, would not choose to bluff the river because it looks like a good board to bluff at, they'll just go for it. that's middle limit logic, man!