So how exactly how common are bots?

The13atman · #1 03-04-2005, 04:31 AM

Up until a few days ago I was under the impression that there were no bots operating at any site and within the last couple days it's all that's been talked about on this forum. So does anyone have any idea how common they really are? So far it just seems like speculation to me.

Radio · #2 03-04-2005, 04:33 AM

Id say extremely uncommon to almost non-existant at the major sites. I think your highest chance of playing against a bot would be buy playing a site that actually uses bots.

scotty34 · #3 03-04-2005, 04:43 AM

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I think your highest chance of playing against a bot would be buy playing a site that actually uses bots.

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such as...?

The13atman · #4 03-04-2005, 01:32 PM

Bump?

CountDuckula · #5 03-04-2005, 01:46 PM

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Up until a few days ago I was under the impression that there were no bots operating at any site and within the last couple days it's all that's been talked about on this forum. So does anyone have any idea how common they really are? So far it just seems like speculation to me.

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There are a number of people using WinHoldEm, which is basically a bot. I don't know how successful they are, or how many seats they occupy, but they are there. I think the bot discussion got revived because of Saabpo, as a number of people analyzed its play and decided it was a bot, and that got spun off into a general bot discussion.

The WinHoldEm folks are in an arms race with the sites that are "harassing"* its users; i.e, the sites are figuring out how to detect the bot, and the cheaters are finding ways to avoid detection.

*"Harassing", as used by the cheaters, may be translated as "Enforcing the terms and conditions that prohibit the use of bots, and confiscating the money that we stole fair and square by using them".

-Mike

richrf · #6 03-04-2005, 03:18 PM

My guess is that it is growing pretty rapidly. There is lots of incentive to build bots (there is an incredibly large universe of computer specialists who have nothing better to do than build these things), and if done properly are totally undetectable. Of course they would never be advertised, just like a card mechanic doesn't go around advertising. Expect it to grow very quickly over the next couple of years expecially with lots of dedicated manpower. It's not that they will be impossible to beat, but they will make it more difficult to win since they would be able to do many things that a human cannot do such as play remotely. This would mean that a group could set up a world-wide network of bots and control them from a central console. Interesting possibilities.

saabpo · #7 03-04-2005, 03:28 PM

The13atman · #8 03-04-2005, 03:43 PM

Interesting stuff. I went to WinHoldem.com and it just seemed like a stupid referral site to me, no real content or anything. Is there actually a messageboard or something where people are discussing how they make bots?

Also, I've been accused of being a bot before at the table, so who knows how many people who seem like bots really are.

Interesting discussion anyway.

The13atman · #9 03-04-2005, 03:44 PM

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*"Harassing", as used by the cheaters, may be translated as "Enforcing the terms and conditions that prohibit the use of bots, and confiscating the money that we stole fair and square by using them".

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Just because we're not soft-skins doesn't make us all criminals. You botist. Get out of MY America.

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Saabpo replied to one of my threads. My life is now complete.

Hellmouth · #10 03-04-2005, 03:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My guess is that it is growing pretty rapidly. There is lots of incentive to build bots (there is an incredibly large universe of computer specialists who have nothing better to do than build these things), and if done properly are totally undetectable. Of course they would never be advertised, just like a card mechanic doesn't go around advertising. Expect it to grow very quickly over the next couple of years expecially with lots of dedicated manpower. It's not that they will be impossible to beat, but they will make it more difficult to win since they would be able to do many things that a human cannot do such as play remotely. This would mean that a group could set up a world-wide network of bots and control them from a central console. Interesting possibilities.

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Wouldnt it be easier to just hack the website to see all of the hands and then write a program to play using all the hands as availible information? I guess the problem with this route is that it might be much more easily detected.

Greg