Interpreting SSHE Preflop

IGMorton · #1 03-03-2005, 11:56 PM

In SSHE preflop guidelines, Miller recommends calling a raise with some speculative hands only if a certain number of people have 'already entered the pot'. I could use some clarification. Is the purpose of only calling if 'x' players called the raise just to assure the pot is big enough for me to get the necessary pot odds for seeing the flop?

Example 1: Tight Game Chart / SB - I have a medium pocket pair (77-88) in small blind. He says call a raise if the raiser and 1 caller are 'in the pot'. What if 1 EP player and 2 MP players already limped in for 1 SB bet, then MP3 raises and both LP fold. There are 6.5 SB already in the pot (counting the blinds). Nobody has called the raise yet, but it's very likely that at least 1 of the 4 remaining (3 limpers + the BB) will call the raise. Should i call?

Example 2: Loose Game Chart / LP - I have a small pair (22-66) on the button. He says call if 3 people are 'in the pot' - a raiser and 2 callers. What if 2 EP and 3 MP players limped in and LP1 raised (8.5 SB in the pot). I can reasonably assume there will be 2 more callers. Can I call?

Example 3: Loose Game Chart / LP - I have a weak suited ace (A2-A7) to the right of the button. He says call a raise if at least 3 callers to a raise are in the pot. Say the 3 EP players and MP1, limp in. Then MP2 raises and MP3 calls (9.5 SB in the pot). Again i can assume there will be 2 more callers.

hiflyer51 · #2 03-04-2005, 02:38 AM

yes, you can assume that the limpers will call the raise.

Willluck · #3 03-04-2005, 02:42 AM

i like to fold my pocket pairs lower than 8s in these situations, I only like to call against a steal (actually I usually 3-bet).

Knoler · #4 03-04-2005, 03:45 AM

When the game is aggressive, I don't mind calling a raise pre-flop with my small pocket pairs when I know the pot will still be multiway. I see it that way because it's *great* for me when someone has AA-JJ and I flop, say, a set of 2s.

I also find that people seem to not mind calling many raises post flop when the pot is already big. I'm more likely to get paid off in a big way.

For instance, this happened tonight:

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: GreatestAmericanHero is UTG+2 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, GreatestAmericanHero calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, 3 folds, SB 3-bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, GreatestAmericanHero calls, MP2 caps, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, GreatestAmericanHero calls.

Flop: (20 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, GreatestAmericanHero raises, MP2 3-bets, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, GreatestAmericanHero caps, MP2 calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (18 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, GreatestAmericanHero bets, MP2 calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (22 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, GreatestAmericanHero raises, MP2 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: 27 BB

Results:
BB has Ah As (two pair, aces and queens).
GreatestAmericanHero has 7c 7s (full house, sevens full of queens).
Outcome: GreatestAmericanHero wins 27 BB.

It's not cold calling a raise, but it is calling a raise and a reraise back to me. With BB and UTG+1 in the hand, I never even thought of tossing this away here. I'll gladly pony up the extra 1 BB to see the flop, 'cause people just won't see me coming post-flop.

Regards,
-Brian

IGMorton · #5 03-04-2005, 11:17 AM

re: folding 22-77

could you clairfy... what position, how many callers? or did you mean that even in a really loose game with 4-5 people in the pot, you would fold to a single raise?

chief444 · #6 03-04-2005, 11:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i like to fold my pocket pairs lower than 8s in these situations

[/ QUOTE ]
We know. But you're wrong to do so.