40-80 hand #1

Clarkmeister · #1 02-28-2005, 12:53 AM

Got a few shorthanded hands to post. Been playing lots of shorthanded and don't feel like I've been at my sharpest.

4 handed. SB is a good full game player, but when shorthanded he gets IMO more than just a little too loose and too aggressive because he thinks "that's how you play shorthanded". That said, he gives me some respect. BB is largely unknown, but also is playing too aggressive. Basically, I'm the tightest and most passive player in the game.

CO folds, I raise on the button with QdQs. SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: Kc Ts 7c. SB checks, BB bets, I raise. SB 3-bets, BB folds, I call.

Turn: 7d. SB bets, I raise, SB calls.

River: 5h. SB checks, I check.

chio · #2 02-28-2005, 12:58 AM

i don't see what the turn raise does. given your read on the SB, calling down seems best in this big pot. but i like folding even better than raising.

too loose and too aggressive means he's not folding any king on the turn. if the raise was for value, then why the river check?

Danenania · #3 02-28-2005, 01:14 AM

I think I would rather call down since I expect him to bluff on the river if he misses a draw. This also ensures you of a chance to spike a Q on him if he has K7 or KT (or heck, AA).

arkady · #4 02-28-2005, 01:22 AM

eh, i like it. You decided that you are going to call down anyway, so might as well raise the turn since there is a good chance he will check the river, thereby giving you a small opportunity to win it right there. I guess the only thing I would be curious about, is there any chance he might fold a really weak K? Or would you *prefer* that he folds something like AT?

Danenania · #5 02-28-2005, 01:24 AM

Wouldn't this guy reraise AT preflop?

Schneids · #6 02-28-2005, 01:25 AM

I think the turn raise in particular is awesome. Given your tight image I really doubt he threebets you with a draw, it has a small chance of getting a king to fold since you're so tight, and in all likelihood is for value since the guy might be on a draw and realize you are calling down so he therefore would have given up on the riv (since you say he's a decent player and might be capable of making some deductions)... Awesome all around, though shocking to believe you're the tightest and most passive player at the table [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Clarkmeister · #7 02-28-2005, 01:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't this guy reraise AT preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Very likely, but not quite 100% I think.

King Yao · #8 02-28-2005, 01:38 AM

A question I'd ask myself is :
If he is on a draw, does he realize his 3-bet may hurt him more than it helps him?

If he is on a draw, all the benefit of the 3rd player folding goes to the made hand (if he was drawing, he'd have to assume you had a made hand). So if his 3-bet forces the 3rd player to fold, he's not increasing his probability of winning the hand by much, while decreasing the expected future pot size, the combination of which is bad for him and good for the made hand (you). Of course, if he thought the 3rd player was loosey goosey and would still call two raises, that would make that question moot.

There are other factors too, but I think his understanding of this concept is an important key to his chances of having a pair of K's or a draw. If he does understand this concept, then I'd be worried that he's got a K...and then I would not be raising on the Turn. If I was sure he understood this concept, I may even fold the hand on the Turn. If he does NOT understand this concept, then I'd raise on the Turn as you did.

Danenania · #9 02-28-2005, 01:40 AM

If I had a good draw in SB's situation I would 3-bet too because the chance to steal the pot on a semi-bluff is worth way more than a little extra value on my draw. And if BB calls that is fine too.

King Yao · #10 02-28-2005, 01:45 AM

The way I look at it, from the SB's point of view, if he had a draw, he's seen the original poster raise pre-Flop, and raise on the Flop as well....if I was in that spot, and in bad position, I'm thinking the semi-bluffing value is slim....I don't expect the original poster to fold to the 3-bet on the Flop, and I would be very surprised if he folded on the Turn as well. I think the semi-bluffing value is worth little from that position with a drawing hand.

So if I was the SB with a drawing hand, I wouldn't raise unless I was fairly sure (throwing out a number here - 60%?) that the BB would call 2 bets.