The Mandalay Bay 10-20 game

[Dynasty]

Today, I went on a fact-finding mission to confirm some rumors I heard yesterday and were posted in Clarkmeister's thread "Rake increases at Mirage and Bellagio".

The recent rake increase from $3 to $4 at the Mirage and Bellagio has already had a major impact on the Las Vegas poker scene. On Wednesday, several Mirage 10-20 Hold'em regulars (ones who get the game started in the late morning/early afternoon hours and keep it going) joined together and headed to Mandalay Bay, which has a $3 rake, to start a game there instead.

I went to Mandalay Bay today and confirmed that they have had a 10-20 game running for each of the last two days. In conversations with dealers and management, I learned that this core group of players intends to continue playing at Mandalay Bay by starting up the game themselves at about 11:00am each day. Even though this core group of players had left by the time I got there at about 4:30, the game was still running with a few of Mandalay Bay's 4-8 regulars and a few tourists.

The impact hasn't just been increased business for Mandalay Bay. It's also created problems for the Mirage. For the second day in a row, the Mirage was not able to start and maintain a 10-20 game. Yesterday, the Mirage didn't have a 10-20 game running when I arrived at about 4:00pm and couldn't get one going the entire time I was there (to about 8:30). Today, I arrived at the Mirage at about 6:30 and they were just starting a 10-20 game. In talks with management and players, I learned that a 10-20 game had started at about 3:00 or 4:00 but broke about an hour later. I suspect that the Mirage will continue to have problems getting their games started without this core group of players.

I was able to briefly speak with Mandalay Bay's poker room manager, Kay White. She seemed optomistic that they would be able to keep the game running successfully with the combination of the Mirage defectors, some of their regular 4-8 players, and tourists. Here are a couple interesting items which she brought up during the conversation.

1. There will be no chopping of blinds. She was adamant about this based on here experience as a dealer and manager. The Mirage allowed chopping so I think some other 10-20 players may be uncomfortable with this.

2. They will not spread any games bigger than 10-20. I think this decision comes from casino management more than from Kay herself.

In addition, Mandalay Bay has a far better comp system than the Mirage. This could only help to maintain a group of regulars for the 10-20 game.

I told Kay I would be putting up this post tonight and told her where to find it. Hopefully, she will respond and give us information in the future about how the game is going.

Ah, the free market in action. Isn't it wonderful!?!

I checked in at Mandalay over the weekend to see if the 10-20 was going. It wasn't, at least on Sunday. But with the rake increase @ Mirage, it doesn't surprise me to see folks move over there. It's a nice room and seems to be well-run. Now so long as they don't see this as an "opportunity" to raise their rake to $4.... If they keep it at $3, and thus attract the regulars to keep the game going, they'll certainly get more business from out-of-towners like myself when we're in Vegas.

[balt999]

I really like the way the Mirage 10-20 players have banded together for a singular cause. I agree with Dynasty that this is ultimate hurt the mid-limit action at the Mirage and increase Mandalay's business. In the long run, I think the Mirage and Bellagio will continue to lose a lot of the local business as work gets around of the 10-20 games running at Mandalay. And even if the Mirage/Bellagio poker rooms renig on their rake increase...the damage will be done because the local players will be skeptical of why their doing it. I mean, once you burn someone once, they never forget. Personally, I've only played the 10-20 Mirage games a few times, and I don't play it enough to make an impact. But the next time, I decide to play 10-20, I would think twice about going to Mirage and go to Mandalay instead (Besides the female clientel is much better looking [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] )

And I think forums like this and advocators such as Dynasty speaking out on this (I mean when Dynasty talks, people normally listen) will ultimate increase the business of Mandalay and hurt the Mirage...

Just my opinion...

[HDPM]

I think it is good that another casino will be spreading mid-limit poker there. 10-20 should be sustainable a lot of places. Not allowing chopping does make the game more expensive than the $3 rake would otherwise indicate though, particularly with those day shift regulars who chop a third of the hands. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
If Kay White happens to read this, I will tell you that I am much more likely to go play at your room the next time I am in Las Vegas. I am not a huge fan of Mandalay Bay and have not spent much time there. I checked out the poker room once or twice but never played. However, if you have a good 10-20 with $3 rake, I will make a point to go there and will give you a play. I might stick around and play a lot there if I like it too. I think a lot of other players will play there because of the increased choice in games too. Us out of towners can't start the games or keep them going like the locals, but I think this will be good for your room.

[Ryan_21]

Cant keep a game together. Thats what greed gets ya. Serves them right, greedy b*st*rds....lol.

Ryan_21

[Tommy Angelo]

This is funny and tragic. It's funny that players would leave one game because the price went up, and instead go play in one that is more expensive.

It's tragic, for management, that poker customers are apparently the only customers who feel that management should be in business for some reason other than profit.

Tommy

let all of the 1020 regulars go to mandalay so i can sit with all of those tourists who are visiting and staying at the mirage and carve those fish up. Just me and 9 tourists at the table... I'm gonna splurge on the $1 extra per pot... what is $1??? it is poppycock, bupkus... let all od those cheap mopes head over to mandalay, i promise you the 1020 will continue, mirage pokerroom will thrive, and begas will be the same. The only thing different, is that my pockets will be fatter. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[mewhoelse]

Does HorseShoe still have a $2 max rake? If so should not people move their games downtown?

[PokerBabe(aka)]

The Horseshoe is so tacky- If you don't mind filth and smoke I guess it's ok. It's worth paying a bit more to be in a nice environment.

[Jimbo]

From my perspective I'll just tip a dollar less per pot won which is still probably $3 more than the Vegas regulars!!

Jimbo