TP w/ Crap Kicker & Flush Draw

Nate_Dogg · #1 02-18-2005, 01:42 PM

This was a typical loose passive table. UTG+2 is loose/passive as well. Would you guys play this any differently?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $0.5.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 calls, Hero calls, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 folds.

River: (7.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

smiely · #2 02-18-2005, 02:05 PM

Relative newbie here, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I play this the same way. Limp preflop, raise for value with the flush draw on the flop. Bet out the turn, since no one's really given you any reason to suspect that your hand isn't good, and someone with a strongish K might call along anyway, and a weaker ace will definitely call. If you get raised, you can worry about QJ, but you still have outs to your flush. The river bet is fine also. Again, UTG+2 hasn't given you any reason to slow down. I suspect a weak ace.

And if I've made any grievous errors in my analysis, I welcome the dressing-down I will receive. It's all part of the learning process for me. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

NateDog · #3 02-18-2005, 02:10 PM

I'd say your line looks fine. River card helps, as your kicker no longer plays, hence the value bet.

BTW, nice handle [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Entity · #4 02-18-2005, 02:10 PM

I probably raise preflop, but limping certainly isn't bad. The rest of the hand is standard.

Rob

Redd · #5 02-18-2005, 02:11 PM

Seems pretty standard to me. The only part where you even have a choice is to check behind on the riv, but you'll get weaker hands to call enough to make it +EV. Nice hand.

Redd

edit: Realized there are no weaker aces.

brooklynjoe · #6 02-18-2005, 02:13 PM

I don't think it's horrible, but I do question the value of the flop raise. The hero is on a strong draw and has decent back-up with his top pair even with the crap kicker. Why not let as many people come along as possible instead of knocking them out? With no other draw on the board besides the flush, he's likely to only knock out hands that he's beating.

NateDog · #7 02-18-2005, 02:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it's horrible, but I do question the value of the flop raise. The hero is on a strong draw and has decent back-up with his top pair even with the crap kicker. Why not let as many people come along as possible instead of knocking them out? With no other draw on the board besides the flush, he's likely to only knock out hands that he's beating.

[/ QUOTE ]

MP3 already called one, and will likely call another one back to him. I like this line as our if hero gets 3 bet by UTG2, he's probably behind given the read, and has 9 outs to the nut flush twice.

djshawk · #8 02-18-2005, 02:23 PM

I've not read the other posts yet, so could be repeating or may be way off.

I'd consider raising this one pre-flop. If the players are loose and passive like you say then you'll probably get to the turn if you need to.

Flop is perfect.
Turn is perfect.

At the river you need to evaluate the hands he will call you with and loose.
If he has an Ace the best you will do is split the pot (do you see why?) but will often loose. So I think betting the river is -EV.
If he has a busted flush draw, he won't call.
I'd just check behind and get the free showdown.

cain06 · #9 02-18-2005, 02:27 PM

The flop raise is good because it lets you see where you stand. If someone is slowplaying a hand, he could re-raise you back since you're already pot commited. In small stakes, people will typically call with anything anyways, so who cares if you raise the flop, people are going to keep calling.

brooklynjoe · #10 02-18-2005, 02:30 PM

Yeah, I see that. I should have looked at the action more closely. The BB was the only player to be faced with calling 2 bets cold unless UTG+2 3-bet it. Are you saying though that if you got 3-bet on the flop that you would feel ok with folding to one bet on the river?