Observing your opponents

[Rob-L]

I play mostly low-limit hold'em, limit hold'em that is, not so much NLHE.

One problem I run into is the observation of my opponents. I'm not really sure what I should be looking for.

Basically, I try to notice who is raising and from what position. I then try to remember what cards they had a show down.

But, two questions I have for all of you:

1) What else should I be looking for while observing my opponents? (Either B&M or on-line)

2) Since I play low-limits, there is usually at least 4-6 in the pot to see the flop. This is where I get really confused.

How the hell can you keep any eye on so many people at once and remember what they had on the showdown? How do you keep it all straight?

Any tips or advice is appreciated,

Rob-L

[rmarotti]

Assume they all suck and play according to Miller's Small Stakes Hold 'Em. Especially at B&M games.

[flair1239]

It comes with practice. Even mult-tabling you are able to pick up more than enough info.

You don't need to look for every nuance. The two things I look for most are how often they enter a pot (and how limp or raise), and also I like seeing the showdowns to see what their standards are. At the mico/small stakes limits, I think this is enough to get you by.

The other thing is, you do not need to know everything about everybody. Once you've picked a couple potential weak players at a table, focus on them.

That is where your "extra" bets are going to come from.

So to sue up, look for trademarks of weak players (entering to many hands, cold calling raises repeatedly, and general inability to get away from hands.). Then focus on those players.

[Brainwalter]

Isn't time better spent observing the better players? I find I can pretty much dismiss the bad players for a while, and just play them like they suck.

But to the OP, like these others have said, don't try to watch 6 people during one hand, watch one at a time for a few hands each. Try going around the table. If you're watching player A though, and player B raises utg, do remember to see what B has at showdown, after watching A call the hand down.

When watching each player look for how many pots they enter, and how aggressively they play their hands. Look for weird hands at showdown like the guy wo just called down with two pair on a ragged board.

[TripleH68]

It takes thousands of hands to start really improving at reading your opponents. The most important things to me...

1) frequency of calling raises preflop.
2) %VP$IP and whether position matters.
3) postflop aggression.

[sean c]

Good post Rob. I try to figure out each players pre and post flop tendancies. Each hand pick one or two players and pay special attention to them don't try to follow everyone after three or four orbits you should have a good feel on how each player plays and remember people's play changes as the game goes on so its important not to make a quick judgement on someone and stick with it for the entire session.

[zephed56]

What's their range of betting hands postflop. For instance, the lag will bet out with most anything, and if you sit to their left, you can isolate them frequently.

Do they ever get "out of line" is another thing to look for.

What do they call down with. This will help you determine what you can valuebet them with.

[Harv72b]

A few things I look for online:

-Preflop cold-calling frequency.
-Will this player bet a draw? How aggressively?
-Will this player raise the turn or river on a bluff?
-How often does he check/raise?
-Will this player bet middle/bottom pair into the field?
-Is the player capable of folding to a turn raise HU?
-Is the player capable of folding?
-Can the player be taken out of his game by a bad beat or two (or a perceived bad beat)?

As for how to keep an eye on all those players...some of it comes from practice, some of it comes from having a good short-term memory (and copious player notes), and it helps a lot if you're using pokertracker (I didn't mention most of the stats PT contains because they seem like givens).

[Octopus]

[ QUOTE ]
How the hell can you keep any eye on so many people at once and remember what they had on the showdown? How do you keep it all straight?

[/ QUOTE ]

I normally play online, but when I am in a casino, I sometimes feel the same way you do. The answer (for me) is to remember less. I generally know no more about the guy on the opposite side of the table than how loose he is pre-flop and whether I have seen him do anything obviously insane. The people two or three to my right and one or two to my left I watch very carefully. Everyone else is in between these extremes.

Start with the guy on your right and then work outward in both directions until you feel you can't keep track anymore. Go for generalities, rather than exact hands. (e.g. He plays a fifth/quarter/half/all of his hands. He pumps his draws (appropriately or not). He called a draw without proper odds. He bets/raises with nothing on the flop, but shuts down on the turn. He always calls one more on the river (or he doesn't). &c.)

One thing I watch for everyone (I am not sure why) is cold-calling. I assume people I see cold-calling play poorly in general, especially if I get to see what they cold-called with.

[The Goober]

Good post.

Pre-flop, I look for:
-who plays every hand and who knows how to fold
-how do people react to a raise. Really loose players often don't even think about the raise - any hand they'll call 1 bet with they will call 2 (or 3, or 4). Usually you can tell by their demeanor if the raise causes to think about their cards at all, or if it just causes them to grab more chips
-how often do people raise PF... especially live, you'll find players that just don't believe in PF raising with anything short of AA, KK, or QQ - its nice to be able to confidently dump JJ or AQs to a raise (or perferably a 3-bet) from one of these players.

On the flop and beyond, i usually just focus on the agressor of the hand and don't worry about trying to read the passive callers. At a good game, people call down with such random garbage that they could have virtually anything. Especially if the agressor raised PF, I hope I'll get to see his hand so I can tell what sort of hands he likes to raise with. Generally, I lump people into one these categories: overvalues high cards (raises with crap like A8o from early position); overvalues pairs (like the guy tonight who three-bet 66 after an UTG raise and a caller); or totally random (usually some degree of maniac). In general, though, I try not to read too much into the flop play. A lot of players seem to be so loose on the flop that they will get really wacky.

The turn is where I try harder to get reads. A lot of players will do dumb [censored] like cap the flop with a very weak draw, but then go into their shell on turn. I try to identify as early as possible the players that are willing to raise the turn as a bluff or semi-bluff verses the players that will never raise the turn without a very strong hand. Also, a lot of players insist of slow-playing any sort of decent hand, and the turn is where they will pop it. Some players, though, always slow-play to the river, wich is another thing that I look out for.

Finally, on the river, I try to figure out which players are willing to value-bet the river. I find lots and lots of players who like to act like the hand is over when that fifth card hits - I've seen players like this check behind with the nuts on the river. Its nice to know who these folks are.

One other thing, I try to look for who likes to check-raise. A lot of players will virtually never CR, and a lot of player just *love* doing it. I played with a guy tonight who would check-raise any time he had top-pair or better, and would bet out if he had a lesser hand. Once I finally caught on, it was like his hands were face-up.

this is what I think about anyway, FWIW