Adjusting vs Various Opponents

TazQ · #1 02-17-2005, 12:40 AM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with QJo.
2 folds, TAG raises, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, TAG bets, Hero raises, TAG calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, TAG raises, Hero 3-bets, TAG folds.

I personally think Hero misplayed his hand badly. He played his hand like he would against a fish. I personally play this hand very different vs someone I respect, would like other opinions.

imported_Robert Andersson · #2 02-17-2005, 01:04 AM

Hero played bad here?

TazQ · #3 02-17-2005, 01:08 AM

What does he exactly gain by 3-betting here? What does he possibly lose?

fyodor · #4 02-17-2005, 11:33 AM

I was the Hero in this one. Doesn't make any difference to the play but I actually held Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

The Button could be steal raising with a very wide range of hands. Especiallly against me because he knows I suck at blind defense. I know how aggressive he is, so on the flop itself I have an easy check raise.

On the turn I seriously doubt the 2nd 4 helped him. About the only 4s he would be playing are A4 or 44 maybe K4s. When he raises my turn bet, my best guess is he has a T or straight draw or is out right bluffing.

If he is bluffing or has the straight draw and misses it on the river, I'm likely getting no more bets out of him no matter what. If he has a Ten or an Ace or King I would like him to leave now or pay to stay.

If I'm behind to a bigger PP he likely goes into call down on the chance I have a 4 or JT. Losing this one extra bet is the downside. And I guess if he folds a smaller PP to my 3 bet but would have bet it himself on the river, I'm losing one.

After having slept on it I still 3 bet today. Anyone else?

Schneids · #5 02-17-2005, 11:42 AM

Because of the drawy nature of the board if button is someone I respect I'll often bet into them on the flop and 3-bet, because they are more likely to raise my flop bet if they have something they're intent on showing down since they can devise a lot of draws I could be betting into them.

spydog · #6 02-17-2005, 12:34 PM

Before his turn fold, Villian played this hand exactly as if he had TT+, 44, or JT. Looks like the turn 3-bet is extreme chip-spewing.

TJD · #7 02-17-2005, 01:05 PM

You could argue for other lines but to say

[ QUOTE ]
Hero misplayed his hand badly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think is a bit over the top.

Flop - well if he thinks you are the sort of player who is going to raise overcards then betting into you as Schneid suggests is a good idea. I just LOVE playing against people who do that [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. However, presumably you are also capable of folding if he bets out if your PFR was a little on the thin side. The CR in this situation is "standard" and I would not criticise anyone who took that line.

After the CR he will of course bet the turn. When you raise him he has some decisions to make:-

a) Are you bluffing
b) Are you on a draw and are semi bluffing hoping for a fold
c) Are you making a free showdown play
d) Do you have him beat

He then needs to decide what you will do on the river:-

If he just called the turn raise, as he is a good player, he has probably decided that he has enough chance to be ahead to see a showdown. You would be aware of that so, you are less likley than a fish to try and bluff him on the river.

This means that the oft used play of calling to induce a river bluff may not work as often as usual.

If you are bluffing, going for a free showdown or drawing then (assuming he will not get many bluffs from you on the river) his reraise is better surely.

Of course if he is behind it will cost him an extra 2BB to see the showdown but I do not think the choice is so clear cut to accuse him of misplaying it badly.

He won the pot didn't he? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

T

fyodor · #8 02-17-2005, 01:07 PM

Good plan Shneids. If he then raises my turn bet I would be more likely to go into calldown mode. I'm certainly not folding top pair though.

fyodor · #9 02-17-2005, 01:11 PM

I thought there was a better chance of a) than d) but saw b) and c) as the most likey.

TazQ · #10 02-17-2005, 02:48 PM

I dunno, this is how I look at it.

When you 3-bet you make him fold a lot of hands you rather want to keep in. Pair of T's are folding, low pocket pairs, silly Aces, etc.

Also, when you 3-bet you're getting capped by hands that beat you, or called down by hands that beat you.

You do charge a draw, but most people are willing to raise A2o here rather than T9o. I think the % of hands that would flop a draw on average are quite a bit lower than the other possibilities.

The fact that you check raised the flop and bet out on the turn usually suggests a pair. Only reason I see TAG raising the turn here is to try and get you to fold a small pair and get to showdown for same price, or for value.

Anyways, I call the turn raise and bet out on the river. You get a lot of curiosity calls out of this, small pairs generally give you 2 BB now, perhaps even Ace high. May be 3-betting the turn is the right play, I just don't see any benefits of it besides charging draws, which there are few.