KJo flops top pair vs. Limp/Reraise

sethypooh21 · #1 02-11-2005, 09:20 PM

No read on villain.

Raise sometime? Fold sometime? I'm all at sea.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls, Button calls, BB folds.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, Button calls, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls, Button calls $1 (All-In).

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

naphand · #2 02-12-2005, 05:32 AM

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No read on villain.

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I'm all at sea.

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This is what happens.

When opponent LRR you are either against an idiot or AA/KK/AK hand. The idiot playing this is probably on a Axs or some other suited garbage, though less likely with only 2 opponents (they love to LRR suiteds against a full table, apparently they "have odds" to do so). You have no read that he is crazy, and in that spot my thought after the PF LRR is "I need to hit this flop hard" (non-idiot).

PF raise good, call the 3-bet, flop raise good, easy call to the 3-bet. No draws. You are almost certainly beat now, with the other player calling along you are getting some value for calling down here, and you are also more likely to be beat/drawn out.

Tough to fold TP isn't it? though you will need to learn to do this in the Stars $2/$4 game; this is greatly eased with reads. You will have to put in 2 more BB to see a SD (at least) as if he is bluffing or playing something like KTs hard he is not giving up. That is 2 BB and the pot is 10 BB. I think I would probably call down in most cases but hate myself for doing so. Knowing what his LRR standards are would be useful, though Button is providing that service for you.

I think you should be capable of folding here and not lose any sleep over it, but calling down has some benefit. Do you really need to get that read on this player? The key point is whether to call the Turn or not, once you get to the River you must call. BB has a PP, UTG has AA/KK/AK, small chance he has QQ.

sethypooh21 · #3 02-12-2005, 08:44 PM

FWIW, villain shows QQ and MHIG...
(All in had a8s...) if guy behind me had had chips, I probably fold...

balkii · #4 02-12-2005, 08:59 PM

I would just call down from the flop on, and bet if checked to.

captZEEbo1 · #5 02-13-2005, 01:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would just call down from the flop on, and bet if checked to.

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same

cab4656 · #6 02-13-2005, 02:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would just call down from the flop on, and bet if checked to.

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same

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There's no need to try to protect your hand from the third player with a raise?

sethypooh21 · #7 02-13-2005, 09:28 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
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I would just call down from the flop on, and bet if checked to.

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same

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There's no need to try to protect your hand from the third player with a raise?

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That was my thinking with the flop raise.

naphand · #8 02-14-2005, 04:16 AM

Do not be afraid of loose callers in this game, 2nd-pair or worse is typical of what these losers will call down with against 2-players.

TomBrooks · #9 07-11-2005, 07:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When opponent LRR you are either against an idiot or AA/KK/AK hand. The idiot playing this is probably on a Axs or some other suited garbage, though less likely with only 2 opponents. PF raise good, call the 3-bet, flop raise good, easy call to the 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
How did you decide that this villian was an idiot and therefore didn't have AA, KK, AK? Is that the best default assumption in this game? What is your estimated level of certainty? (Perhaps expressed in percentage?)

Surfbullet · #10 07-11-2005, 07:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When opponent LRR you are either against an idiot or AA/KK/AK hand. The idiot playing this is probably on a Axs or some other suited garbage, though less likely with only 2 opponents. PF raise good, call the 3-bet, flop raise good, easy call to the 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
How did you decide that this villian was an idiot and therefore didn't have AA, KK, AK? Is that the best default assumption in this game? What is your estimated level of certainty? (Perhaps expressed in percentage?)

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe nap was saying that we raise the flop because regardless of whether he's an idiot or has AA he'll lead the flop and we can raise to protect our hand in this large pot. Once we get 3bet we have to acknowledge that he's probably got a good holding and we go into calldown mode because of the size of the pot.

I call down here once 3bet on the flop against unknowns FWIW.

Surf