Did I play this one right? (O8)

__Q__ · #1 02-11-2005, 02:10 PM

This was a frustrating one. Comments?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Omaha/8 (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.5. Hero posts a blind of $0.5. MP3 posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG (poster) checks, Hero (poster) checks, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (9 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (9 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 raises, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, Hero 3-bets, MP1 folds, MP3 caps, CO calls, Button calls, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (15 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, MP3 raises, CO folds, Button calls, UTG folds, Hero calls.

River: (21 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Button calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 24 BB

dlk9s · #2 02-11-2005, 03:36 PM

Doesn't seem like there was much you could do there. You maybe could've re-raised on the turn, but in a .5/1 game, I don't think that would've gotten either of the other two people out, especially not the one who raised.

Might have wanted to bet the river and fold to a raise, but I suppose that's pretty pointless, as well, since the only real point to betting there would be to get someone out, and they weren't going anywhere.

Looks like one of those crappy river situations. Who knows - I might've been playing against you (I've been playing O8 on PokerNow).

Yads · #3 02-11-2005, 04:38 PM

Raise PF, there's already a lot of dead money in the pot and you shouldn't give the other posters a free look at the flop. fold the river, I don't know what you beat with button calling.

djr · #4 02-11-2005, 06:37 PM

I don't like raising this hand preflop in that position. But I see the argument so I won't quibble with it.

On the river. He's getting 11:1 on his call. Granted he probably won't win lo, but button could also be calling with a broken A2 or some kind of hi hand. I say might as well try for it, but expect to lose. Note if the pot were smaller I'd agree he should fold.

Buzz · #5 02-11-2005, 09:27 PM

Q -

• preflop - You have a hand with which you should want to see the flop but it's really not all that great a hand. For low, everybody else is going to be playing A2XX, and someone might have a better back-up than you. You're going to get quartered, sixthed, or eighthed for low about two hands out of five - and that's when there _is a low. There won't even _be a low about two boards out of five.

For high let's consider the three main groups of winning high hands in a game like you are describing. (1) Your hand doesn't have very good straight potential. (2) Fourth nut flush draw is nothing to write home about, not probably even anything worth drawing to, although it does add more value to your hand than if your hand were non-suited. (3) Your hand does have the same residual chance of making a full house or quads as any other starting hand without a pair or two pair - but it will be a losing full house more often than if your nine and jack were higher cards (like queen and king).

But you do have that ace-deuce combination, which is nice, even though non-suited.

Suited ace-deuce is the strongest two-card combination in Omaha-8, but you don't have a suited ace-deuce.

You do have a non-suited ace-deuce, which is still a strong two-card combination. Is non-suited ace-deuce as strong as suited ace-three, or a pair of aces, or a pair of kings? (I don't know, and it doesn't matter much, I suppose).

At any rate, the non-suited ace-deuce is only one of six two-card combinations in the hand - and none of the five other two-card combinations in the hand are better than mediocre. Indeed, the three two-card combinations without an ace (92n, J2s, and J9n) are all weak. Would you want to be playing any of these two card combinations in a game of Texas hold 'em? If you wouldn't, and if they're no good for low either, you probably should not like them much in Omaha-8.

I hope the above puts your starting hand in perspective for you.

• 1st betting round - fine. A raise from you would not knock out any other A2XX hands, but you might immediately knock out 23XX, 24XX, 25XX and other poor quality low-draw hands that might stay in and pay off on later betting rounds without the raise.

More importantly, with a pre-flop raise, you very well might get less from your opponents on _later betting rounds, both due to a greater reluctance to raise and a greater reluctance to call. Obviously, this depends on how your opponents play.

• flop - This is a decent, but not great flop for your hand. You have the nut low draw and a (remote) chance of ending up with a winning high, perhaps as a club flush. There are 990 turn-river two-card combinations possible. Of these, 488/990 (slightly less than half) enable low for you without counterfeiting your low, while 502/990 do not. Sure, you have some chance at high too, but it's honestly not good.

I'd want to see the turn, but probably cheaply, maybe for one or two bets.

• 2nd betting round - The bet is O.K. However, three betting it is poor, in my humble opinion. The raise may indicate another A2XX, and you still don't really want to alert a 23XX, 24XX, or 25XX at this point. To 23XX, 24XX, or 25XX, the raise should be like the red lights at the top of a police car look in a rear view mirror. If you re-raise, to 23XX, 24XX, or 25XX, it should be like also hearing the siren.

But O.K., you raise, lose one, and the betting gets capped. Then on the next round you lose two more. Do you think they might have heard the siren on the previous betting round?

• turn - a good, but not great, card for you.
(5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], or 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], even though a straight flush would be enabled, or any five, six, or seven, or even 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] would have been better). But O.K. you made the nut low. Now you just have to sweat keeping it.

Why isn't 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] a great card? Because now you'll lose chasers holding A3XX. But O.K. Certainly better than not making your low.

• 3rd betting round - Bet is fine. The call of the raise is fine. A re-raise would have been fine too. Yes, there's a danger of getting quartered, and even some danger of getting sixthed - but more often you won't. Anyhow, calling the raise is fine, and re-raising would have been fine too.

• river - Ugh.

• 4th betting round - Yeah, you have to call if you don't want these people pushing you around on future hands. And, although it doesn't look good, there's an off-chance of winning something here.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

Moneyline · #6 02-11-2005, 09:51 PM

Preflop: I don't like open posting in EP, I think it's a -EV move. That said, you lucked out and got dealt a playable hand.

Flop: I would also jam here provided that no very tight players are in the pot... since the other jammer open posted, he could very well have an 8 in his/her hand.

Turn: I would rather check with the intention of raising here. MP3 showed no desire to slow down on the flop, so it seems unlikely that he/she would do so here. By checking and letting MP3 bet you can make it easier for the other players to throw their chips in the pot.

River: Tough break. Even though the pot is big, I would fold