Leak?

[Phoenix1010]

I'm sorry because I know this has been discussed before but I'm not very skilled with the search feature so I'd like to bring it back up.

Party $11- $33 SNG
Level 2, Blinds 15/30, No reads on any players yet
All players around equal stacks, Hero has t770
Hero is in MP with KQo (or KJs, AJo, ATs)
3 folds to Hero

[mcpherzen]

[ QUOTE ]
Party $11- $33 SNG
Level 2, Blinds 15/30, No reads on any players yet
All players around equal stacks, Hero has t770
Hero is in MP with KQo (or KJs, AJo, ATs)
3 folds to Hero

[/ QUOTE ]

In my opinion, at this level and buy-in, there is a difference between KQ and KJ, AJ, and AT. Most opponents play a weaker K and a weaker Q so poorly, that KQ is playable for a limp (but must fold to any reraise). KJ, AJ, and AT are just flat-out not playable.

--zen

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Party $11- $33 SNG
Level 2, Blinds 15/30, No reads on any players yet
All players around equal stacks, Hero has t770
Hero is in MP with KQo (or KJs, AJo, ATs)
3 folds to Hero

[/ QUOTE ]

In my opinion, at this level and buy-in, there is a difference between KQ and KJ, AJ, and AT. Most opponents play a weaker K and a weaker Q so poorly, that KQ is playable for a limp (but must fold to any reraise). KJ, AJ, and AT are just flat-out not playable.

--zen

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never considered this. Thanks for a new way to approach looking at these 'strong' broadway hands.

Yugoslav

[microbet]

I pretty much only limp with KQo in late position.

[realbad101]

I typically open raise KQ from MP on party levels 1 and 2. So far about a 75% win rate with it. I win between 30-200 chips per hand at these levels. Low variance, high chip return don't lead me to change this strategy any time soon. At least not for my current level (10+1)

[Scuba Chuck]

I've never considered this. Thanks for a new way to approach looking at these 'strong' broadway hands

It just kills me that even when you spell it out in plain English, or you do a little hand holding, some people will just never learn. I bet if all the strong players on this site actually gave away all their secrets, it wouldn't matter, because people would continue to play their 34s, TJs, KQo, etc.

I am feeling a little cynical today. I knew I was getting myself into trouble.

[AtticusFinch]

[ QUOTE ]

It just kills me that even when you spell it out in plain English, or you do a little hand holding, some people will just never learn. I bet if all the strong players on this site actually gave away all their secrets, it wouldn't matter, because people would continue to play their 34s, TJs, KQo, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why should that upset you? It's where all our profits come from.

[Scuba Chuck]

You're correct, that is where all my profits come from.

I love it when I can take down little pots because players incorrectly limp too often. I love it when I reraise the button to keep my big blind because he only mini raised some hand I would have folded to an allin. And the button mutters to himself, "I knew I had to worry about a monster." I love it when I create incredibly wrong pot odds for a flush chaser to call with KJs, and he does. You're right, I love it when 88 calls my 3x BB preflop raise only to check fold to me when I push, and sometimes they even call. I love it when someone pot bets their flush draw and never gets his card. I love it that people will call bets hoping to complete their disguised straight draw leaving them with so little chips in middle play, that it's like "taking candy from a baby." I love it.

Or perhaps I have this unusual feeling of giving back. Ah, who am I kidding, I'm not a caring person.

[Phoenix1010]

Hard to believe so many people opted to raise in that situation (I made it an option half-jokingly, but I guess you can make an argument that it's better than limping).

I've been known to throw in an occasional limp with KQo or AJo, simply because in an unraised pot, top pair with these hands will quite often be the best hand, and a lot of people are willing to pay me off with their K9's and A7's. I've gone back and forth on it, as some people have advised that you play incredibly tight early, and others have said that super-tight early play isn't completely necessary if you know what you're doing post-flop.

Open limping with these hands is almost certainly wrong, but I think the discussion becomes more interesting if Hero is in late position after a limper or two.

General consensus seems to state that this is an easy fold from MP, and I pretty much agree. With the recent weak-tightening phenomenon which seemed to sweep through the low buy-ins, I had loosened up my standards a bit to include these less than marginal limpers (at least in late position, although I open-limped in MP at least once with KQo, which prompted this poll) but with the current state of the tables (back to the glory days of extreme fishiness, thank God for televised poker) I think it's about time to plug this leak and get back to the core strategy. Thank you all for your responses.

Regards,
Steve

[two_dogs]

At these levels I believe the ATs is better than the KQo.
Neither are great but more ways to the nuts with the suited Ace.I will admit though that the suited ace is my biggest leak but I'll muck KQo everytime levels 1-3 from MP and won't stand a raise with Axs.