Reading hands at low-limits

[gulebjorn]

Hey all,

I've been playing Interpoker's 0.50-1$ NL tables (100$ max. buyin) for the last week, mainly to clear the 90$ bonus as I am still building my bankroll. This is only the second online pokerroom i'm playing. (I started with Royal Vegas' 10$ free offer.) So far, i've got about 100hrs of play and i'm up 1000$.

That's not a great deal of experience, and I have a hard time putting people on a hand.

I read a lot of forums and strategy articles. When i'm reading hand histories or discussions about re-raising a given hand on the turn... I can't help but wonder how useful it is to be thinking about these things, when your opponents clearly are not.

When i'm playing Interpoker, people raise huge amounts preflop with basically any pocket pair, or any ace-face card. And what's more, they'll get callers holding Axs, KJo... I'm still trying to figure out how to tell the difference between someone raising 12$ with 77 UTG and someone raising 4$ with KK on the button.

Postflop, i have the same problems... People go allin with AQo on a K-9-3 flop, call allin bets when they hold 88 on a KT7 flop...

Just when i start thinking "hmm, two seats to my left seems to be a solid player...", that guy will call an allin bet with a gutshot straight... and catch it on the river.

So this is my question to those of you who've seen a lot more hands then i have: how can you tell if your read on your opponents hand is any good? If your opponents don't think in any logical way about their own cards, how can you tell what they have?

Thanks

[Biff M.]

Yes, you miss out on a lot of action because you are reading his play as if he knew what he was doing.

But, you are also getting a lot more action on your good hands than you would if he knew what he was doing.

Take notes on players, and when you have 3-4 hands it's usually pretty accurate. Like this "Call 5x raise K9o" or "Raise 4x 55 from BB". You can't always read an unknown player's hand just from the betting action, that's why you have notes or mental notes.

[kurto]

"I'm still trying to figure out how to tell the difference between someone raising 12$ with 77 UTG and someone raising 4$ with KK on the button." You definitely can get a feel for a lot of the players after a couple of rounds to read them.

I have notes of players... they'll make huge raises with low pocket pairs. They raise less with really strong hands. I think their thinking is, "I know a PP is good, but its low and difficult to play postflop, so I don't want any callers." Some people make huge raises only with Aces or Kings. It really doesn't take long to figure out who does what. In that case, it gets easier to put people on a hand.

Also... take notes... some people will raise with AK and ALWAYS bet even if they miss the flop and continue betting with nothing until the river. Some will always check. There will be 3-4 people you can't place on a hand, but at least you know that. But you should know... do they bluff? Will they call bets with mid pair? Will they bet draws or simply call them?

"People go allin with AQo on a K-9-3 flop, call allin bets when they hold 88 on a KT7 flop..." You're at a dream table. Once you know who is making moves like this, you should be able to break them all.

[amoeba]

I'll put it this way. sometimes you can't get a good read because they are so erratic. So put them on a range of hands and if your own hand beats a significant portion of their range of hands, then a call is in order.

[NORM77]

I think the key is to realize that these players are making mistakes with these type of plays, and they are bound to do it while you hold a hand if you are patient enough. So I wouldnt worry if you fold a marginal winning hand every now and then to there All in Bets, You can wait for the right spot and break them when you have the goods.

So I guess rather then trying to read each hand, you are trying to evaluate what type of players they are and how good of a hand you will need to go to show down with.

Good Luck.

[parttimepro]

I've found that I play best when I play against people who are 1 step below me in skill. If they're much worse, my standard playbook doesn't work as well. e.g. My opponents don't realize that they should fold a gutshot straight draw to a pot-sized bet, so I give them credit for a set and slow way down.

It's still profitable to wait for monster hands and double through with them against idiots. But it's boring, and I can make more playing against slightly better players for higher stakes.

I've played at interpoker, and I was surprised at how bad the $100 NL tables were compared to other sites. It seems like the lowest stakes tables of any site draw the total idiots, and consequently are very difficult to read. If this is the correct level for your bankroll, try switching to Party or another site with .25/.50 fish pools, and play against more predictable competition.

[Tilt]

You make a good point. It is more difficult to read hands when the play is erratic. But this is not just a low stakes problem - anytime you have inexperienced players playing amounts of money that are trivial to them you have this problem. At the low stakes tables its more prevalent, but you can find this issue at almost any table at some point so its one a good poker player needs to be prepared for.

Amoeba is right that you simply have to play your own cards more - i.e. if its a fairly rare quality hand you should call down more often.

Another issue is that the implied odds of almost any hand improve when your opponents are prone to push willy-nilly. If you are multitabling, you can play super tight and need almost no reads to win money. If you concentrate on one table, however, and study the players, you can be looser and do even better. That goes against the common wisdom of this board but I find its very true.

Also, bear in mind the following telltale "reads" of SSNL opponents:
- Check raises are almost never bluffs. Its almost always 2 pair or better
- Preflop min raises from tight players often indicates AA/KK
- Postflop min bets on draw heavy boards often indicates flush and straight draws
- Desperation all-in bluffs at the river are more common than in games with real money involved

[kurto]

"- Desperation all-in bluffs at the river are more common than in games with real money involved"

Though I've noticed lately a number of players overbetting/all in on the river because they know people are prone to call weird bets.

For instance... I witnessed a hand recently where the betting was like... .50 bet open on the flop. 4 callers. Checks all around on the turn. Checks to the last player who goes all-in for $8. I was watching and wondered if this seemed like a drastic overbet into a ~$3 pot. Someone called (who had previously been willing to check) I can only guess because they thought it seemed an odd move. The all-in person had rivered an inside straight draw and really got paid off for it.

There's an article too, on this site I believe, making the argument to overbet pots with the goods because at these levels people will call. Perhaps a lot of people are heeding that advice.

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Though I've noticed lately a number of players overbetting/all in on the river because they know people are prone to call weird bets.

For instance... I witnessed a hand recently where the betting was like... .50 bet open on the flop. 4 callers. Checks all around on the turn. Checks to the last player who goes all-in for $8. I was watching and wondered if this seemed like a drastic overbet into a ~$3 pot. Someone called (who had previously been willing to check) I can only guess because they thought it seemed an odd move. The all-in person had rivered an inside straight draw and really got paid off for it.

There's an article too, on this site I believe, making the argument to overbet pots with the goods because at these levels people will call. Perhaps a lot of people are heeding that advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying you should call all these down with pairs. But at monkey-stakes SSNL if you hit a set and make pot sized bets to the river, suspecting all along that your fish is on a flush draw, don't respect the all-in at the river too much when the board stays uncoordinated. At low stakes SSNL players are not very good at disguising their bluffs.