My Most Butchered Hand Ever

kurto · #1 02-09-2005, 01:46 PM

Villain (~$32) - Constantly raising and betting. Haven't seen too many shows because people keep folding. He's shown some winning hands, but the raises were very questionable (J8, 10K, 910S, A10, etc.) His aggression has been working for him.

OTHERGUY- New to the table. NO info. Full buy in ($25)
HERO- $26

$25 NL PS
I'm around the cutoff with Red pocket Qs. Villain does his usual raise to $1. 1 caller to me who calls. OTHERGUY in SB calls. BB folds.

I call because I know the guys out of line and will be aggressive, so I want to let his aggression work for me.
(I know... mistake #1)

($4.25) FLOP 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB checks. Villain opens for $1.75 (his standard flop raise regardless of whether he hit or not). fold to me, I CALL. I am willing to guess that he doesn't have the diamond draw. And he will escalate his aggression. SB calls. (MISTAKE #2)

($9.50) TURN 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img])

SB Checks. Villain bets $1.75. Which I read to mean I know I have him beat. Its the small blind I'm worried about. Slowplaying a flush? I decide to call because even if the SB was on the flush draw, I still have a possible out to a Queen high flush... and I want to see how he reacts. I call. He thinks and calls SB Calls.

($14.75) RIVER 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB Checks. Villain bets $3. This reads totally as a bluff in my eyes. I KNOW I have him beat... its still the SB I'm confused by. I CALL the bet... (Mistake??? - damn that SB... he's confused me) SB takes a long think... and raises to $6.

Villain folds. I reluctantly call.

BONUS if anyone can guess what's going on here/the final hand.

IUPlaya · #2 02-09-2005, 01:57 PM

I would have definitely raised to 3 preflop and hope he reraises or pushes all-in himself - You want to be heads up! I also would have raised the flop hard to knock out/charge for flush draw. Either of them could have spiked a 2 pair with so many cheap cards given. I'm guessing SB flushed and did so very cheaply. You can't let him bet $1.75 into a $9 pot. Do you really think you can trap him for all his money on river when pot is small?

kurto · #3 02-09-2005, 02:09 PM

"I would have definitely raised to 3 preflop and hope he reraises or pushes all-in himself" I agree. I really should have isolated him. He was winning so many hands on the flop, that I didn't want to give away the strength of my hand preflop. And since he raised as expected, I counted on his raise to reduce the field. Clearly it didn't work well enough.

"I also would have raised the flop hard to knock out/charge for flush draw." Of course. I was butchering. I was thinking that his bet and my call would show strength and put us heads up. Again... it didn't work. And it was dumb.

"I'm guessing SB flushed and did so very cheaply." Nope. That wouldn't be much of a bonus if it was that easy.

"You can't let him bet $1.75 into a $9 pot. Do you really think you can trap him for all his money on river when pot is small?" I think if it wasn't for that third player, he would have paid me more. They do it so often. Though I think he was thrown off by having 2 callers.

Let me say this much... My read on the villain was 100% spot on. The fact that I wanted to play games with this LAG guy made me ignore the X factor (sb).

Another clue... if I knew what the SB was playing, I may have slowplayed as well.

TrailofTears · #4 02-09-2005, 02:21 PM

Hey kurto,

I'm not going to guess at the hands here because I honestly don't have a clue and your hints are confusing me even more. That being said, you have to put in a raise here. Yeah, you don't want to let them get the flush so raise to charge that, but more to build a pot. You have an incredible hand here and have tons of outs even after the third diamond hits. You need to raise to make these hands pay off. You can't win a lot of money without making bets and raises. Hell, I hate to min-raise but you see it so often at NL25 that it wouldn't be fishy (pun intended) and will help get some money in there.

- Trail

kurto · #5 02-09-2005, 02:33 PM

"That being said, you have to put in a raise here." I hear ya. Let me say that I played this hand COMPLETELY different then I normally would. I was playing this one player (which I did correctly, but unfortunately, didn't take into account the SB).

Oddly enough, my thinking was for the most part sound... I would have won this if the SB was a thinking player. The SB should have folded preflop. He should have folded on the flop. The villains bets alone should have gotten the guy out.

"I'm not going to guess at the hands here because I honestly don't have a clue" Its easy. Don't look at the action. Look at the final board. You know I lost and you know it isn't a flush.

I didn't read flush on either of them. The amazing thing is I was right. And still lost.

jtr · #6 02-09-2005, 02:39 PM

64o presumably. Sorry, I am like the guy who shouts answers while watching "Who Wants to be a Millionaire".

NiceCatch · #7 02-09-2005, 02:41 PM

46o for the nut straight? You definitely slow-play that on the flop. But man... he would have to be terrible to play that. The other hand would be JJ. KK, AA, AQ, and a lower set will give you action, so no need to slowplay those hands.

Elkhound · #8 02-09-2005, 02:50 PM

Without any reads on the SB it is tough to put him on a hand but here is my thinking assuming he is a somewhat competent player. You have already eliminated the flush as a possible hand so here goes...

AA KK JJ: Possible but not likely as he would have raised preflop

TT: Could be slow playing the set, but again would have probably raised preflop

77: Slow playing the flopped set and his preflop call make sense with this hand

55 or 33: I would think these would have been folded to the flop raise, but who knows.

AK KQ : Would expect him to play these more agressively to charge the flush draws

Q7: Slow playing flopped two pair seems risky with the flush draw out there.

Q5/Q3: Suspect preflop play but after that it makes sense.

Being that he is a new player to the table and doesn't have reads on the overly agressive player the hand that make the most sense to me would be 77.

So, am I right?

kurto · #9 02-09-2005, 03:03 PM

"46o for the nut straight?" Bingo. Based on the action, I thought he has the flush or I've won. At no point would I have ever put him on what he had. And I didn't think he had the flush because I think he would have played it differently.

Looking at how this hand went, it makes me think my strategy (playing the maniac) should have worked. Who would have thunk someone with no hand and no draw (2 UNDERCARDS) is calling bets?!?!?

lol Ooooh, POker.

NiceCatch · #10 02-09-2005, 05:18 PM

Add OTHERYGUY to your buddy list! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] And play with him. Guaranteed +EV! Certainly worth the extra three dollars for that info.