Flush draw + Pair = All in??

sillyarms · #1 02-09-2005, 01:20 AM

I made what seemed like a pretty routine play today until a friend who was watching me asked about it.

I'm in the bb with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] sb folds. 4 limpers I check.

Flop: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet the pot which is about 9.5 UTG reraises me all in for about 89. UTG+1 calls. I have a stack of about 109 and utg+1 has me covered. I push for the rest of it. I think that mabye the lead out bet on the flop was questionable but the call of the raise was easy. What do you think. How would you have played this hand differently?

silly

Piz0wn0reD!!!!!! · #2 02-09-2005, 01:42 AM

2:1+ pot odds w/ 2 cards to come is good here.

Caruso329 · #3 02-09-2005, 02:52 AM

There are so many things wrong with this hand. For one, why lead out with just middle pair and second best draw? UTG re-raising all-in screams set to me at least, probably 6s. Which if that's the case your 3 8 outs are tainted and your king outs are no good unless you runner runner a boat.

If you really want to play this hand, check the flop and call anything up to a pot sized bet.

Piz0wn0reD!!!!!! · #4 02-09-2005, 02:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
There are so many things wrong with this hand. For one, why lead out with just middle pair and second best draw? UTG re-raising all-in screams set to me at least, probably 6s. Which if that's the case your 3 8 outs are tainted and your king outs are no good unless you runner runner a boat.

If you really want to play this hand, check the flop and call anything up to a pot sized bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

weak tight.

TheWorstPlayer · #5 02-09-2005, 02:57 AM

The killer situation here is when you against both a set AND the nuts flush draw. In that case you are basically drawing to running 8s or Ks (maybe a K and an 8). That is very very bad. That situation is very unlikely, but UTG's raise is a serious overbet and UTG+1 cold-called that huge raise. You are probably still fine, but there aren't THAT many hands in villains' hand ranges. I think a set is not unlikely here (probably UTG+1, UTG wouldn't likely overbet like that with a set.) Maybe UTG has a straight+flush draw (which removes some of your flush outs)? Maybe just the nuts flush draw (which removes all of your flush outs?) Maybe they have two sets (that would account for all 8s - unlikely - and also remove two of your potential outs)? I'm really not sure which hands can play like this, but I would still probably call since it is such a big pot. I wouldn't be too happy about it, though.

sillyarms · #6 02-09-2005, 03:34 AM

Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!, Caruso329, TheWorstPlayer, I really do think this is a pretty borderline sutiation. I think there is a validity to all of your posts so I would like to ask more information. what range of hands do you put your opponets on? What do you think the likelyhood they hold the hands in this range? Thanks for the responses so far.

silly

Caruso329 · #7 02-09-2005, 03:50 AM

What level is this and what are the stack sizes if you please?

Kaz The Original · #8 02-09-2005, 04:02 AM

What I would like to stress is how important it is to lead out on this flop. You have a pretty damned good chance (before any action) of having either the best hand or the best draw. This also promotes an aggressive image, and doesn't let the slightly observant ones just check fold whenever you bet out.

If UTG+1 is a notorious chaser, or UTG a notorious huge semi bluffer, but hands the could easily be AQ and KQ, or even Ace's. You've probably got a lot of outs, and might even have a ton.

sillyarms · #9 02-09-2005, 04:22 AM

It's Party Poker nl 100. Before posting the blind I had 118.05, utg had 90.20, utg+1 had us both covered. I'm only about 10 hands into it and I don't know much about my opponets.

silly

sillyarms · #10 02-09-2005, 11:51 PM

UTG had A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and UTG+1 had Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. The turn and river didn't help me and UTG+1 took it down. Being entirely too results oreinted I think it was a good bet. How often(in percentages) do you think I'm up against a set or a better flush draw here?

silly