Trouble Hands

[JackWilson]

So after 10K hands of $2/$4 I have a few questions about various hands. My win rate is pretty decent (4.54BB/100) -- cue to naysayers that require 500K hands to determine winrate...yes I know it's not a big enough statistical sample but let's just accept that I'm a winning player for this discussion.

My biggest money losers of the hands I regularly play are (roughly in order of magnitude):
77
88
KJs
JTo&s (note that I don't actually play JTo very often)
various small pocket pairs (22 obv the biggest)
T9s down to 87s
AJo

Now, my biggest concerns are 77 and 88 and of somewhat lesser concern is 99 where I only make 0.2BB/hand compared with 1.2 for TT. I think it's fairly obvious that you want to play 77 in a multiway unraised pot from mid to late position yadayada. I raise 77 a lot with only 1 limper or open-raise and it's costing me money, but I don't see how limping it and then getting it raised behind you is so much better. What are some pointers on playing 88 and 77?

Similarly, what exactly are the requirements for playing medium suited connectors? I always look for multiway unraised pots with these, so I think it might be that I'm chasing a bit too much post-flop, but I'd still like to hear a guideline on pre-flop.

Last question...AJo is only costing me money from EP. Is it wrong to raise it from EP? Better to limp it UTG and UTG+1 maybe UTG+2 depending on the game? My thinking is that by raising you're getting rid of hands that you either have dominated or can easily beat (PP) but you are not getting hands better than yours out. Interestingly my playing requirements for KQo and AJo are very similar and KQo is making me quite a pretty penny, so I can only assume that it is from hitting an A and losing to a better kicker where I lose most of my money.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm on a tiny slide lately and just wanted to re-evaluate some things that might be leaks in my game and restore some confidence. I've been trying harder than ever to make my post-flop play as profitable as ever, but you can't really focus on that if you have creeping doubts about something as elementary (well, it should be) as pre-flop play.

BTW, please don't refer me to SSH. I haven't read it but it is in the mail.

[JackWilson]

Help please?

[Rudis]

EP and MP I never raise with any pair under 88. In LP I raise 77,66 if there are no limpers or one limper...
I limp with pairs down to 55 if there's one limper and I limp with lower pairs if there are 2...

[mantasm]

It sounds like you have the right idea preflop for all of these hands. You probably don't have to make any changes in that area. As you indicated though, 10k hands is not enough to give you an idea of your winrate. Winrate for individual hands takes even longer to converge. You seem to be doing fine preflop, just keep playing.

Fun fact: My winrate for my last 11k hands is +4.3 bb/100. The previous 10.5k was -1.74 bb/100. Winrates converge much more slowly than you'd think they would. Try and find some hands you think you may have played incorrectly. If you can't figure out how you should have played them, post them here. Welcome to the forum.

[Barklad]

Personally I feel one leak in your game is raising AJo (even suited for that matter) from early position. It is not nearly strong enough to withstand a 3-bet from middle and late positions. Also IMO not raising with pocket pairs under 99 in middle and late position is to draw others into the ring so if you do hit a set it will be well payed off. I feel the problem with open raising is that when you hit you will make too little and when you miss (which is often) you will be dominated and less likely to give up the pot on the flop.

[colgin]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I feel one leak in your game is raising AJo (even suited for that matter) from early position.

[/ QUOTE ]

I generally raise with AJo in EP against weak players but just calling is fine too. I can't see raising as really being considered a "leak" in the Party $2/4 game though. However, not raising AJs from EP is just terrible.

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
My biggest money losers of the hands I regularly play are (roughly in order of magnitude):
77
88
KJs
JTo&s (note that I don't actually play JTo very often)
various small pocket pairs (22 obv the biggest)
T9s down to 87s
AJo



[/ QUOTE ]

Just my take on these in order. Assume a "typical" table 33-35% to the flop a few +30% VPIPer and some TA-x, TP-X types.

1. (77) I open limp with this from EP, although if the table is being a little frisky (or someone is on a heater and rasing alot), I will much from the UTGs sometimes. I will open raise with this hand from MP. (although EMP is still a limp for me).

2. (88) I will play from anywhere in an unraised pot. Limp from EP, open raise from almost any MP. From the button I will raise if I think I can be heads-up with one limper. 3-4 limpers from LP I will sometimes raise.

3. KJs- I open limp with this hand from anywhere at any table. As a matter of fact I sometimes debate whether this may be a small leak. Again raising with this hand depends on whether I am trying to limit the field or not. If I think I can keep it three-handed I will raise. Again I mix in value raises from LP with this hand depending upon the percieved quality of the limpers.

4. JTo- I only play from CO or button in unraised pots. I open raise from 3 off the button or for a blind steal.

JTs- May be a leak for me. I tend to open limp with this hand from anywhere. About 50% of the time I will open raise from MP. If I raise this hand from LP it is only if I think I will be able to be heads-up and have a chance to push my opponent off overcards if the flop is crap.

5. T9s- 87s: These are CO and button hands for me. Again depending on Table, I infrequently open raise from MP-LMP with these hands (Although 98 and 87 I might just fold.)

6. AJo: I muck from EP. Reason being is I have a tendency to push overcards from EP in short handed pots. To me in this situation AJo is a hand where you can make the right read, play the hand correctly, but find yourself out-kicked. Open raise from MP. I will limp from co or button if the pot is going to be multi-way. If I think I can keep it three-handed or buy the button, then I will raise.

As a side note. Just complteted my first 10,000 hands of 2/4 as well. Not doing nearly as well as you 1.2 BB/100. IT has been swingy had a 150BB upswing to start, a 100BB downswing, then a 250BB upswing, and last night I completed another 100BB down swing. All this in 2-weeks. So anyway congratualtions, I have Win Rate envy.