One more hand with the fishies...

[crunchy1]

No real read on SB, MP2/UTG are total fish 50+/0/0.... I'm not sure why I really didn't like the T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] falling on the river but something just didn't seem right.... is this a value bet or check to showdown?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds.

Turn: (6 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

River: (10 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero....

[Harv72b]

Raise preflop. They're sooted!

Bet the river. Even at 1 bet per street with two fish in the hand, the backdoor flush is unlikely. I'd have been more worried if a 2 or 5 came on the river.

[Barklad]

Probably should have raised pf. Given the passive play of the "fish" there is no way you can check the river. It is more likely that they are chasing the diamond flush or gut straights than a backdoor heart flush draw.

[crunchy1]

This is usually a hand that I will raise with pre-flop. This just happens to be one of the times that I was changing up my play a little. I'm sure that some of you will disagree with changing up my play because the majority of the 2/4 players won't even take notice of this. However, I personally don't feel the need to ram and jam the pot every single time that I've got big suited cards.

My thinking here was that with 3 out of 7 original callers still in on the river isn't this a situation where better hands will call and worse hands will fold? Or is that not a consideration given the poor play of my opponents? Secondly, what if I bet and get check raised? Autofold? Crying Call?

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
However, I personally don't feel the need to ram and jam the pot every single time that I've got big suited cards.


[/ QUOTE ]
I do. Seriously, you're missing out on a lot not raising this from any position...especially the button.

[ QUOTE ]
My thinking here was that with 3 out of 7 original callers still in on the river isn't this a situation where better hands will call and worse hands will fold? Or is that not a consideration given the poor play of my opponents?

[/ QUOTE ]
I got called down after raising preflop by Jack high twice yesterday.

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Secondly, what if I bet and get check raised? Autofold? Crying Call?

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Probably call, absent a read.

[Chairman Wood]

oooh, you gotta raise preflop. Lots of value in that.
Flop:good
Turn good
River: Bet. There will be lots of things that people will call you down with. Weak ace pair of 3's 4's etc. Afterall it is a backdoor flush draw coming through so it is less likely someone made their flush. Had it been a diamond that hit there would be cause for more concern but I think it is a value bet anyway. If someone got it ehhh so be it but it is a solid value bet. In addition my experience with these fisheririffic 50+ VPIP players that are so passive is that if they hit their flush on the end they are more likely to bet out then go for the checkraise.

[jailhousejoe]

You have the best chance to win when you have a premium pre-flop holding. JAs is one of those. I cant understand limping pre-flop at this level (and especially in the 'revolving-door' world of the Internet). If you personally "dont feel the need to ram and jam the pot" when you are likely to have the best of it, I guess it means you dont want to win as much and as often as possible??

I'm not having a go here, you understand.. I'm just a bit confused.

As for me I bet the river. dont get scared of a check-raise. If it happens, then i'd probably call, though a read would help.

[Rico Suave]

GrunchCan1:

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However, I personally don't feel the need to ram and jam the pot every single time that I've got big suited cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, you don't have to raise suited broadways everytime, but not raising 3 limpers &amp; a poster with AJs on the button is a big mistake. Seriously. Trying to justify it by "changing it up" is silly.

Bet the river. If c/r, I would usually pay off unless I knew the player farily well.


--Rico

[crunchy1]

I have 2 questions then:

(a) Do you guys ever change the way you play hands, or are you playing so systematically that you will play these hands the same way every time?

(After reviewing this question, it sounded kind of rude... I don't mean it to be... just an honest curiosity)

(b) Is there a cutoff number of players left in the hand where you wouldn't bet the river here? Or is this a value bet regardless?

[chief444]

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(a) Do you guys ever change the way you play hands, or are you playing so systematically that you will play these hands the same way every time?


[/ QUOTE ]

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MP2/UTG are total fish 50+/0/0

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Do they notice when you change your play up? And if by changing up you mean limping with AJs on the button against a bunch of weak limpers then absolutely not. I like money.

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(b) Is there a cutoff number of players left in the hand where you wouldn't bet the river here? Or is this a value bet regardless?

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe 16. Seriously probably not. The more opponents the less often you need to be ahead to make the bet correct.