Q-Js or 8-8

[andyfox]

It looks like's it's going to be a 5-way pot for 4 bets (capped) pre-flop. Which hand would you rather have: Q-Js or 8-8? Do position or post-flop skill or aggressiveness (or lack thereof) in your opponents (or other factors) affect your choice?

[Nate tha' Great]

88.

I don't think my cards are going to be very live in the QJs hand, assuming my opponents are something resembling reasonable. I'd actually rather have 76s in this spot than QJs.

[Gabe]

Why didn't you add a poll to your post. There may still be time. maybe two polls: QJs vs 88, QJs in posistion vs 88 out of position. Hurry up! I don't think you have much time.

[skp]

Postflop aggresion is probably the biggest factor. QJs can be expected to pay through the nose while 88 would welcome aggression when it hits a set (albeit 88 might also flop a draw and have to pay dearly).

QJs can often flop a 3, 4, or 5 outer with enough pots odds to chase (again, postflop aggression comes into play). Less often, it will flop 9 to 18 outers where there clearly will be sufficient pot odds. 88 will generally only flop a set or a 2 outer. The effect of this is that if you are going to win on a turn or river card, you could do it with QJs but not likely with 88.

As for position, relative position is probably more important than absolute position. It would be nice to be as far away as possible from the anticipated flop bettor with 88. I am not quite sure where I want to be with QJs. Another thing is that relative position on the flop and turn may not be the same depending on how the action unfolds.

This question prolly merits an essay type answer but my Coles Notes view of the question makes me believe that 88 is better.

[Fianchetto]

I'd rather have pocket 8's.

Implied odds are great if you make your set and it is much easier to get away from postflop when you miss.

QJs can make a lot of second best hands, and in that size pot you will probably have odds to chase your pair/gutshot/whatever to the river, often getting taken for a ride on multiple streets.

[skp]

[ QUOTE ]
Implied odds are great if you make your set and it is much easier to get away from postflop when you miss.

QJs can make a lot of second best hands, and in that size pot you will probably have odds to chase your pair/gutshot/whatever to the river, often getting taken for a ride on multiple streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

These may be reasons why QJs is better than 88. Specifically, 88 may just have one chance - on the flop - to drag a big pot while QJ might get 3 profitable chances.

I think the quesion is a close one and anticipated postflop aggresion prbably dictates what you would rather hold.

[andyfox]

I'm not too interested in the quantity of responses favoring either hand; I am more interested in the reasoning.

And beside, I'm not very good at hurrying up.

[Fianchetto]

[ QUOTE ]

I think the quesion is a close one and anticipated postflop aggresion prbably dictates what you would rather hold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. But I think if we are capped 5-ways preflop we are looking at a loose aggressive game.

In that type of game I think it is going to be much tougher to make correct postflop decisions with QJs.

For instance, the flop comes Q high, and it is bet and raised or even reraised to you....sure the pot is huge and you will probably continue, but how many outs do you have? When you flop a pair if you take aggressive action to protect it you may pay through the nose to find out that you were drawing very slim.

Note: I may be somewhat biased as I recently discovered QJs is one of my biggest leaks, specifically because of entering raised pots with it.

[Clarkmeister]

1. 88
2. ATs (just to stir the pot)
3. QJs

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd actually rather have 76s in this spot than QJs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that's stirring the pot. Interesting.