QTo on BB

chson · #1 02-02-2005, 10:55 AM

The table's been pretty tight overall. I just won the blinds with an UTG pre-flop raise.

My concern with this hand is my TURN raise. Is it reckless aggression or protection despite there being only 2 players? I think I remember reading somewhere in SSHE that hand protection isn't a real priority when it's 3-handed.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: (2.25 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, MP3 calls, Button caps, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (4.12 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls, Button calls.

River: (7.12 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP3 folds, Button calls.

Final Pot: 8.12 BB

adamstewart · #2 02-02-2005, 11:28 AM

PREFLOP: fine

FLOP: Good lead out. And I like your 3-bet because you've got top pair with a strong draw (Easy value 3-bet).

TURN: UGLY. You've got to lead that turn. Firstly, you DON'T want it checked through! (And with only two other players, this is a STRONG possibility after your flop aggression). Second, the pot is only 4 BB's so you don't need to check-raise in order to protect your hand. Betting out, will do the trick. Thirdly, on the turn, you haven't yet completed your draw. So you really only have top pair with a mediocre kicker. You've got to question the Button's flop aggression, so I don't think your hand warrents a check-raise because Button could have a straight, two pair, or a set!

In short, DON'T go for the check/raise on the turn because Button is either going to check it through with a draw or weaker hand, OR Button will bet and you're going to check-raise a likely stronger hand.

RIVER: It would play differently had you led the turn. But I like leading out. (You may have to fold to a raise, though).

Adam

PokerBob · #3 02-02-2005, 11:31 AM

Flop is perfect.

I'm not sure about the turn c/r. I like the thought of blowing a player out, but a 3-bet would really suck.

River is fine, but for some reason I think you are behind here. I feel like a check/call line is also OK, but that feels weak.

chson · #4 02-02-2005, 12:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PREFLOP: fine

FLOP: Good lead out. And I like your 3-bet because you've got top pair with a strong draw (Easy value 3-bet).

TURN: UGLY. You've got to lead that turn. Firstly, you DON'T want it checked through! (And with only two other players, this is a STRONG possibility after your flop aggression). Second, the pot is only 4 BB's so you don't need to check-raise in order to protect your hand. Betting out, will do the trick. Thirdly, on the turn, you haven't yet completed your draw. So you really only have top pair with a mediocre kicker. You've got to question the Button's flop aggression, so I don't think your hand warrents a check-raise because Button could have a straight, two pair, or a set!

In short, DON'T go for the check/raise on the turn because Button is either going to check it through with a draw or weaker hand, OR Button will bet and you're going to check-raise a likely stronger hand.

RIVER: It would play differently had you led the turn. But I like leading out. (You may have to fold to a raise, though).

Adam

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a good point about the pot being relatively small on the TURN. It looks like like I take the concept of "buying outs" and "increasing pot equity" too far. Thanks Adam.

chief444 · #5 02-02-2005, 12:07 PM

I lead the turn and call a raise.

chson · #6 02-02-2005, 12:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop is perfect.

I'm not sure about the turn c/r. I like the thought of blowing a player out, but a 3-bet would really suck.

River is fine, but for some reason I think you are behind here. I feel like a check/call line is also OK, but that feels weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah nothing feels better than making someone fold (or even call) when you put him in position to cold call 2 BIG BETS because you know they don't have the pot odds.

chson · #7 02-02-2005, 12:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I lead the turn and call a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Chief.

Why aren't you concerned about getting rid of the other player if you already know that you're going to call down?

chief444 · #8 02-02-2005, 12:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Chief.

Why aren't you concerned about getting rid of the other player if you already know that you're going to call down?

[/ QUOTE ]
For one (and mainly) it's only a 4 BB pot. For another I don't want the turn to check through because I'm not yet convinced I'm beat. Also the only hand I would want SB to fold is one including a T that would split the pot with me and he probably isn't folding that even to a check/raise. Anything else he holds has probably 3 or 5 outs if that and he's making a mistake calling just one bet.

chson · #9 02-02-2005, 01:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey Chief.

Why aren't you concerned about getting rid of the other player if you already know that you're going to call down?

[/ QUOTE ]
For one (and mainly) it's only a 4 BB pot. For another I don't want the turn to check through because I'm not yet convinced I'm beat. Also the only hand I would want SB to fold is one including a T that would split the pot with me and he probably isn't folding that even to a check/raise. Anything else he holds has probably 3 or 5 outs if that and he's making a mistake calling just one bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good reasoning since in most cases the check-raise would cause the extra player to fold. However, if this extra player was a known LAP, then the check-raise is probably a profitable play since he'd be throwing in twice as much dead money.

ErrantNight · #10 02-02-2005, 02:12 PM

what adam said.

and find a new table, for chrissake. it's 1/2. you shouldn't be playing at a tight frickin' table.