KJs - Easy call against loose fish?

vector2 · #1 02-01-2005, 05:47 AM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, 2 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10.33 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, MP1 folds, CO folds, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.16 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, BB calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, BB folds.

River: (13.16 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.16 BB

First of all, I know it was a loose PF call but the game had been so passive for the last 50 hands that I didn't think there would be a problem. I had seen UTG+1 showdown some ridiculous hands, but what can I really beat at this point? Should the crying call be made, anyways?

thirddan · #2 02-01-2005, 05:49 AM

i raise this preflop...

shant · #3 02-01-2005, 05:51 AM

KJs is not a "loose call." As thirddan stated above, I raise this hand too.

rannerboy · #4 02-01-2005, 05:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
KJs is not a "loose call." As thirddan stated above, I raise this hand too.

[/ QUOTE ]

You raise KJs from UTG? Is that a standard play? In a loose game I just call this, in a tighter game I would consider folding.

jailhousejoe · #5 02-01-2005, 06:02 AM

I'd be raising this pre-flop too, on occasion.

however, since you didnt and have 5 players on the flop, I'd be very tempted to check/call the flop here. You already have identified the aggressor, and can be reasonably confident he will bet the flop regardless. You have the nut flush, and I would safely assume I am way way ahead. i'd concentrate on building a big pot. Your bet on the flop and consequent raise by the pf aggressor has forced 3 possible calls out of the pot.

Turn and river are same line as me.

rannerboy · #6 02-01-2005, 06:09 AM

As you say, I can't think of any hands you beat on the river. You have to be ahead at least 7% of the time and that doesn't seem possible. The only reasonable holding you beat would be a lower flush but that doesn't seem very likely with tke K and J accounted for and the way the hand played out.

I think folding the river is correct, but I don't know if I would have been able to fold this myself... I make too many of those loose calls when the pot gets big.

Kaz The Original · #7 02-01-2005, 06:19 AM

I fold this in all games I play. Just good practice. The problem with KJs is when it's dominated it sucks. It sucks pretty much no matter how many people are in, WHEN it's dominated.

It's dominated just as often in tight games as in loose ones. Possibly even dominated slightly more in loose ones because KQ will not be turbo mucked to a raise.

vector2 · #8 02-01-2005, 06:24 AM

The PF call can probably be argued either way. I was hoping to keep the discussion more focused on the river action. Anyone else have thoughts?

rannerboy · #9 02-01-2005, 06:34 AM

Yes, I agree about the domination issue, but that's the reason I don't like raising it from UTG in a loose game. Far too often a dominating hand will just coldcall you. If the game is loose-passive you will most likely get in for a single bet with multiple opponents hoping to hit the flop big. Of course you have to play it carefully the times you hit TPGK since you might very well be dominated, especially the times you are raised preflop.

And of course it's dominated as often in loose games but you make far more money the times you hit a big hand like a flush in a loose game than in a tight one.

kyzerjose · #10 02-01-2005, 08:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The PF call can probably be argued either way. I was hoping to keep the discussion more focused on the river action. Anyone else have thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

CC the river, all the while muttering, "damn, damn, damn".