T,T in the SB part 1

rybones · #1 01-31-2005, 12:12 PM

Paradise $35,000 guaranteed. I am in 30th place or so. Top 30 get paid but it is only 100 minutes into the tourney. Villian has played more than an average # of hands, but he has shown down most of them and they were all good. That said he never entered an unraised pot without raising and has won a few pots uncontested. I have played much the same. That is the set-up.

Game #706843579 - Tournament $10,000 R&A - 400/800 50 anti

utg Fold, mp1 Fold, mp2 Fold, villian (mp3 with t25,465) Raise t2,400, mp4 Fold, mp5 Fold, other (CO with t1,540 calls all-in), button Fold

Hero has T,T in the sb with t14,515 (BB is yet to act with t6,155). What is my move and why?

Any thoughts would be great.

Ryan

jojobinks · #2 01-31-2005, 12:22 PM

any raise pot commits you, right?

so your options are: push, fold, stop n go, or call/hope for set.

the fact that he's shown down good hands doesn't mean much. you're probably ahead.

i'd like to see discussion of the stop n go. is that a good play here, to any flop that doesn't include a face card? are are is there just too much chance of a face card to make that play?

what i'd do: my first instinct is to push, but then you're playing a coin flip or worse if he calls. if you double up though, you're among the leaders, right?

i'd push.

rybones · #3 01-31-2005, 02:23 PM

with the push, are you looking to pick up the what's in the pot already or are you hopping for a call?

As for the stop and Go, I think I like it. but I am not sure. Anyone have thoughts on this move?

Ryan

jojobinks · #4 01-31-2005, 03:10 PM

i figure aj, aq, any random stealing hand, and maybe even JJ to fold.

any hand that calls, save an overpair, leaves me in a decent situation to double up.

what would i prefer? it's a tournament, so as in most situations, i'm looking for a fold.

Matt Finkelstein · #5 01-31-2005, 03:22 PM

the last 3 times I was deep into tourneys I was eliminated with 1010- ak, aj and a8s (he flopped nut flush!)

I like the stop n go, and would only lead out if there's 1 overcard to my 10's

an ace on the flop is tricky; your call could represent a better A - so a good bet may have him lying it down.

rybones · #6 01-31-2005, 03:40 PM

I called, and the bb folded making the pot t7640. I now have roughly t12,000 to bet or check as I wish.

the flop came Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

I am first to act, what is your move (given my call) and why?

LuckyEights8 · #7 01-31-2005, 03:46 PM

Push. AQ beats you. Thats about it. JJ will most likely lay it down (unless this player likes to gamble).

If he has AQ, 77, or 99, or even AA-KK-QQ, good for him, you gotta make this push.

schwza · #8 01-31-2005, 03:48 PM

i like a call and then bet any flop that doesn't contain an A. with the relatively empty side pot, the villain will almost certainly fold if he can't beat top pair. that would let you win the side and play the main heads up with a guy who doesn't figure to have much. it also means that if villain plays back at you, you can fold with confidence.

in the Qxx example you posted, i'd bet out. if villain flat calls, you're done with the hand (unfortunate if he's calling with a draw, but them's the breaks).

tiger7210 · #9 01-31-2005, 03:49 PM

I prefer to flat call then play the flop from there. You're not desparate by any means and I think pushing at this point is wrong and reraising committs you to the pot.

schwza · #10 01-31-2005, 03:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Push. AQ beats you. Thats about it. JJ will most likely lay it down (unless this player likes to gamble).

If he has AQ, 77, or 99, or even AA-KK-QQ, good for him, you gotta make this push.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is this better than better than leading out for T4500 and planning on folding to a raise?

villain might call and then steal the pot later with 2 clubs/TJ/T8/86, and i admit that's a downside, but it's pretty unlikely that he has those specific hands. even if he does, the action might go bet-call, check-check, check-check. villain would only be bluffing at the side pot without any kind of made hand.

on the flip side, AA-QQ/77/99/AQ-QJ (it was just an open raise) are very possible hands for villain. why go broke against those hands? pushing is also unappealing to me because you might force the primary villain out at great risk to yourself, only to lose the main to the all-in guy.