Common BB situation....HELP!

LuckyRounder · #1 01-31-2005, 08:33 AM

Hi all.

I'm having trouble deciding what to do in this common BB situation...10 handed, low limit $1-$2 or $2-$4.

You have say Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the big blind. An early position player raises with everyone folding to you. You call and the flop comes J high. How do you handle this hand?

Obviously some information about the raiser would be nice, but what if you new to the table or for some other reason don't have any info about him. So often, you just haven't played enough hands against your opponent to adjust your play. So what do you do against a typical low limit player here?

Also, what if the raise is from a middle position? How would this affect you play?

Thanks in advance,

LuckyRounder.

lostinthought · #2 01-31-2005, 08:39 AM

Kind of a vague post, but I think I bet out on the flop, call a raise, and plan to showdown as long as the board is not scary.

Specific board examples would be helpful.

LuckyRounder · #3 01-31-2005, 09:14 AM

Hi Lost. Thanks for you post.

Just to be clear on your reply, do you call a raise on the flop (if there is one), and check-fold to a turn bet? If he just calls the flop, I assume you would bet the turn. And if he checks the turn, after raising your flop bet, you would bet the river?

I didn't really have a concrete example. But something like
Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. You call an early (or middle) raise from the BB. Flop comes J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. How do you play if no A, K or Q comes on the turn of river?
How would you play if an A, K or Q did come on the turn or river?

What if the flop was the same but you had 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?

Thanks again,

LuckyRounder.

adamstewart · #4 01-31-2005, 10:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hi all.

I'm having trouble deciding what to do in this common BB situation...10 handed, low limit $1-$2 or $2-$4.

You have say Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the big blind. An early position player raises with everyone folding to you. You call and the flop comes J high. How do you handle this hand?

Obviously some information about the raiser would be nice, but what if you new to the table or for some other reason don't have any info about him. So often, you just haven't played enough hands against your opponent to adjust your play. So what do you do against a typical low limit player here?

Also, what if the raise is from a middle position? How would this affect you play?

Thanks in advance,

LuckyRounder.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the board, specifically? Are there any spades? Any other "high cards"? (These things matter).

Adam

Elbie · #5 01-31-2005, 10:39 AM

I´m not sure I would call preflop. I don´t mind limping in early position with QJs hoping for many more limpers and I would call a raise having more limpers in. I probably wouldn´t call an early raise...all folds.... having to play this hand HU.

Fat Nicky · #6 01-31-2005, 10:46 AM

Playing this hand heads up against a raiser, even for 1SB is not a good situation. Fold pre-flop.

If you decide to play and hit top pair, you need to bet out the flop.

mtdoak · #7 01-31-2005, 10:49 AM

Its it heads up? Or did people call behind him? Is the board coordinated? So many factors to consider here. I almost always lead out with top pair, and check and call down if re raised. But lets say its a J with a two spades out there, well, that changes everything.

rannerboy · #8 01-31-2005, 12:19 PM

Considering a flop with rags, no backdoor flush draw and a typical pf raiser: why not go for a check-raise? The pf raiser will bet out 99% of the time and I think it's way more likely he's on overcards than an overpair. If he just calls, fire on the turn if no overcards fall, and if he 3-bets the flop you call and check-fold the turn unimproved.

adamstewart · #9 01-31-2005, 01:35 PM

This post has made me think a great deal about playing out of the big blind in response to an EP raiser.

I've laboured over many, many primitive calculations, and I believe that calling an EP raiser out of the big blind, HEADS-UP, is a losing play (-EV).

Basically, I've analyzed the probabilities of a typical EP raiser's holdings. Then compared them against possible flops that are good for you. There aren't that many flops that are good for you (mainly flops that are Jack or Queen high, WITHOUT an Ace or King on board), and even when they do occur, there's only a slight (I estimate 60% chance) that you're ahead on the flop.

I can go into more detail if you like, but I'll wait and see whether others agree or not.

Basically, I've decided that you must be VERY, VERY selective with which hands you play in this situation (unless you have a great read on your opponent telling you he's a total LAG). Remember, you're heads-up, out of position, with a likely dominated hand --> BAD!

Your thoughts?

Adam

adamstewart · #10 01-31-2005, 01:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Considering a flop with rags, no backdoor flush draw and a typical pf raiser: why not go for a check-raise? The pf raiser will bet out 99% of the time and I think it's way more likely he's on overcards than an overpair. If he just calls, fire on the turn if no overcards fall, and if he 3-bets the flop you call and check-fold the turn unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because there's only a 60% you're ahead (in which cases he'll usually fold by the turn unimproved). Therefore, minimal profit.

And if he's a decent player, the 40% of the time that you're beind, you're setting yourself up to get raised on the turn (and this is after wasting check-raising bets on the flop). Therefore, maximal losses.

This situation sucks. (See below - I advocated folding preflop).